TD5 Power Loss & intermittant misfiring

[peteone]

Intermittant fault that only occurs when vehicle left standing for some time , 12 hours or more. Vehicle has completed 60 K miles , 2004 Pursuit !!
Starts OK , sypmtoms are losing power on small gradients, some times followed by miss firing if engine throttled back. Fault continues even if vehicle engine gets warm , however if engine switched off and on, fault disappears. Above problem has been occuring for about a year but is now happening more frequently.
Garage has recently changed fuel pump , but problem appears to be worse. Also injector coils have been changed . Anyone any ideas as to cause or solution ??

[Urban Panzer]

Hi,

It would be worthwhile checking the Injector harness to the ECU for the prescence of oil. Its prone to leaking allowing oil to flow down the wires and into the ECU. It can cause intermittent running and starting issues.

The ECU can be removed easily so you can check if the red plug is oil free or not. "if" oil is there, you will need to clean out the ECU with switch cleaner etc and fit a new harness. The harness takes about an hour to do and can be bought quite cheaply on Ebay.

[TEMPL4R]

TD5s suffer from sticking EGR valve and turbo wastegate, you could check them, the injector harness has been mentioned,check for cracks and splits in intercooler and pipes ( check they are not breaking up and delaminating)

Switching off and back on resets the ECU.
Any Pending codes?

Chris

[peteone]

Many thanks for suggested causes. Unfortunately Disco has been in LR garage all week as wanted fixing quickly as going on holiday, however Garage unable to have time to look at it !! However was told that they had preveiously changed ECU as well as fuel pump. Hopefully they are going to look at vehicle on Monday !! Will advisea as to cause ...if they find it !! Good news haven't used any fuel this last week !!

[peteone]

Many thanks for suggested causes. Unfortunately Disco has been in LR garage all week as wanted fixing quickly as going on holiday, however Garage unable to have time to look at it !! However was told that they had preveiously changed ECU as well as fuel pump. Hopefully they are going to look at vehicle on Monday !! Will advisea as to cause ...if they find it !! Good news haven't used any fuel this last week !!


Update : Picked up Disco from garage and so far OK. Garage were advised by LR to change Injector Seals, which they did !!

In answer to a previous question there has never been any error codeds displayed which is why LR belive is fuel related !! We will see....

[JimAttrill]

Change injector coils? And where, pray, are those? Next to the doofer switch? :D

[peteone]

OK , so I am no expert , but it appears LR are not much better. Problem stiil persists , but only on starting when left statnding for a long period of time AND when the ambient air temeperature is quite high , say 24 degrees C or more. Only know as just back form South of France where very hot and had problem every day at start up !! Back in UK weather cooler and has been OK ....
Items changed to date to resolve :

Fuel Pump, all fuel filters , injector seals , top and bottom , air flow sensor , injector harness, ECU .

Next suggested items for change by LR are Manifold Sensor and Fuel Tempertaure sensor ...anyone any thoughts ???

[andymach23]

I cleaned the MAP sensor on my inlet manifold out. It was bunged up with oil. It transformed the car. It was down on power but I did not realise.

It took about 10 minutes and is a simple job. Engine acoustic cover off, find black plug on inlet maniford. 2x 8mm bolts and the sensor just pulls out. A spray of contact cleaner is all that is required. It's so easy to do it would be worth a try.

Cheers

Andy

[JimAttrill]

So are they suggesting they change these sensors without any real reason? Both of those can be checked with the pooter, they either work or they don't. I would suggest you try a different stealer™ as this lot are ripping you off.

[TEMPL4R]

As Jim says, I doubt a sensor has failed or it would create a code. MAP blocked is an easy and free check, that won't leave a code as it is still working.

Not starting in hot weather sounds like a temperature sensor of some kind. Fuel, water or ambient air if not the MAP.

Changing parts until it runs isn't a cheap way of finding a fault.

Jim, Porny and JONV8 are your best bet for advice.

Chris

[JimAttrill]

Changing parts until it runs isn't a cheap way of finding a fault.
Chris

Unfortunately sometimes it is the only way, but at least if we change a part and it makes no difference we swop them back and do not charge. LR dealers like to change lots of bits for oodles of cash and then they keep the old bits as well unless you jump up and down. But once something has been fitted to your LR it stays there.

[Porny]

Peteone...

Whereabouts in the world are you?? - as not in your profile.

Personnally I'd get the Disco plugged into diagnostic kit by someone who knows what they are doing and go from there.

Ian

[peteone]

Hi Porny ,

Thanks for all the advice. The fault is intermittant and to date when has occured has been "plugged in " to test kit , but no error codes show up !!

Live in Trowbridge , Wiltshire. Using a local Land Rover Garage , which only repairs / maintains / sells Land Rovers but is NOT a franchised dealer !! To date considering the work and parts changed and reveiwing other forum entries charging has been reasonable. They have swapped parts where possible , such as ECU at no charge. However it is true to say they have not fixed problem as yet !!!

May look elsewhere to resolve if sensor changes do not fix. Not sure of LR logic for changing sensors is.Believe there is too much fuel being supplied , hence misfiring !!

Will update after nexts swapouts have been completed . Is happening tomorrow , but may take a few days to know if succesful, depending on weather !!!!

[Porny]

Pete,

When the Land Rover garage has had a computer plugged into your car, have they ever seen any over boost faults??

Just re-reading your first line

sypmtoms are losing power on small gradients, some times followed by miss firing if engine throttled back

Depending what you class as a misfire, it might be that you are hitting the boost cut point - if the ECU sees a boost pressure that is too high, it will cut the fueling until the boost pressure drops below a preset pressure.

On a gradient you will making the engine work harder, so max turbo boost pressure would be reached.

As the fuelling is cut, the car will jerk/feel like misfire.


Two things I would check:

Using a pair of mole grips (or similar) clamp onto the turbo actuator and see if you can make the arm move towards the bulkhead (back of engine). There will be resistance, but it should move.

If it doesn't then most likely the waste gate is seized (common on Td5) - as already mentioned by Templ4r

If it does move... the next thing to look at is the Turbo Wategate Modulator - a posh name for the ECU controlled bleed valve. These have a habit of doing funny things, and will at times cause the boost pressure to go to high or fluctuate. To check this is easily bypassed - in fact you copy the set-up in a Defender. Or a new sensor is only £14.00.
- Can provide instructions.


Or Wiltshire isn't a million miles away if you wanted a second opinion....


Ian

[Jon v8]

Trolly is about 10 miles from me if you are stuck.

[peteone]

Hi All
Well sensors replaced today , MAP & fuel temp sensor. Picked up vehicle and drove about 10 yards before problem re-occurred. Loss of power etc, . ( note you do not have to drive vehicle to know if problem is present. Just leave on tickover and press throttle a few times , after a couple of minites engine will then feel lumpy if fault occurs.) Garage plugged in test box while fault present and only odd thing was air flow mass reading would drop to 30 or less when throttle pressed down and fault occurred. They called LR support who advised changing air flow valve ( hope that is technically correct ). When advised this has already been done, suggested possible wiring fault!! Garage keen to get to the bottom of problem and having back this Friday !!

Just to clarify , there is NO starting problems. The problem only appears to occur when vehicle left standing for a period of time and air temperature is high !!!

Does anyone want a challange !!!!

[Jon v8]

Just tried to send you a PM - but I cant.If you want your truck sorted out,change your settings and send me a PM,cheers Jon.

[TEMPL4R]

He can't get PMs or send JON, not 10 posts yet.

Chris

[peteone]

Hi

Any alternative method of communication available ???

[peteone]

Hi All

Quick update , downloaded LR workshop manual from Internet ...electronicmanuals.co.uk for £9.99. Discovered sensor not yet changed ...AAP . Went to physically check sensor and on removing air filter cover found EGR vent pipe trapped under cover. This should have been fitted to nozzle on cover. This pipe is only present in EU3 discovery SII models. Re-fitted and to date no re-occuarnce of fault...though early days. Air filter was replaced by garage during servicing last October and they have confiremd that it has not been removed as part of there investigative work to date !! Any one know of a good lawyer !!!!