rear suspension problems sls, td5 series 2

[mylovelystim]

theres a lot of ill informed nonsense regarding the sls rear end of these discovery,s.
having just found out how to diagnose and fix the rear suspension i thought i would set the record straight!!
having purchased a lovely 2000 x disco td5 es , i drove the 250 miles home and hooked up a trailer,
the rear sank to the floor (engine off),"fine" i thought, and started the engine thinking it would level out, no it didnt!
i had to tow the trailer home on the bump stops, not good.
so unhooked and fiddled about listening for anything obvious, tried jacking the rear end up under the tow hitch and fiddled with the load sensors,it then reinflated!
but during driving would sink down again, so i bought 2 new sensors £60,
not much difference, it would sink on the nearside first, and then deflate the system,
the only way to reinflate would be to find a ditch and drop the offside front wheel in to let the nearside rear wheel hang and it would reinflate!
more fiddling!
i could feel a small air escape around the area of the ns air bag in the area where it bends round and goes back up, this being the area where the bag gets the most wear due to the ride height .so new air bag £130 (yes i know paddocks are £65+vat+cariage, but needed it NOW! from laughrens(towcester),
installed bag (ludicrousely easy!)
car goes up on suspension.
fill up with 93 litres of fuel.
car goes down!!!!!!!.
wont lift up/hold up
bolt on new compressor assy £250
at laughrens, pete plugs it autologic and clears faults to do with new sensors (something thatshould be done when new sensors fitted)
still not right!
diagnosed as leaking somewhere!,
spray os air bag and pipe with 'leak find'
after 10 seconds it covered in what looks like shaving foam but in fact was showing that bag had gone porous,
fit new os air bag £130!
recheck on autologic
perfect!
so, conclusion!
air bags last 3 or 4 years, they leak, compressor wears out trying to keep up,
remedy/faultfinding
leave disco overnight, put two fat mates in boot,
start engine, if its really slow to rise, replace airbags,
still slow?, replace compressor!
replace sensors while youre down there, reset on testbook/autologic
hope its helpfull!

so new air bag

[mattay]

I know you have found the fault but i would have just put a good spring suspention set on and hay saved loads of cash and got rid of a problem that will not happen a gain....:)

[Jon v8]

If that is your recommended way of SLS diagnosis,then I'm glad you dont work for me !

[mylovelystim]

its all very well saying that a spring conversion would have cost pennys, but why buy a vehicle with all the features that it has, only to disable and remove them, sls is a nice system, i really work my trucks and im now very pleased with it, and as for the other chaps quote about diagnosis, i would love to hear his "pearls of wisdom" witth regard to a series of components that were all past there best and only a process of elimination and testing showed this up.
then its always easy to criticise from an armchair or office desk.
the pope tries to tell us about shagging!!

[mattay]

Yeah ok jon but who said i would work for you LOL,and for my comment it was just i do a lot of off roading in my td5 and find that the air bag suspention was s**t so i removed and placed a top quality spring and shock combo and for the ride i found it mutch better with no sagging and the handling 120% better so for your comment about working for you WHY!!!!! all i was doing is letting a fellow landrover owner know what i have experianced so i would accept your appologies if offered.And as for your diagnostics what would you have done in your master quality garage with all the snapon tools i await your comment to this>>>>>>>
:p:p:p:p:p:p:p
matt

(So as i said this was not a recomendation just a passing comment JON)

[Jon v8]

Mattay it was not your coil spring suggestion I was commenting on,it was Mylovelystims post. Reason being that DII SLS faults are so well known amongst both independants and main dealers I fail to see why the whole lot got replaced when all it needed was a pair of air springs.Replacing the sensors was a waste of money - they can be checked via live data on Testbook,and they rarely fail.If the air springs dont leak then the compressor will have little work to do and last alot longer.
Point is,everyone loves to have a go at garages who have fitted parts to their car and not fixed it.Your method of dignosis would rapidly bankrupt a garage,if it didnt you would quickly end up with a very poor reputation.

[mattay]

ok jon i did think you was having a go at my comments but thanks for making that clear you wasnt..hope that your business dose do well and that the economic situation isnt effecting you to mutch
regards
matt:p

[lynalldiscovery]

Read somewhere a while ago about a few people putting that tyre sealant into their porous airbags and it worked, well for now anyway:D



Lynall

[Jon v8]

The other thing is the last lot of air springs I fitted were Dunlop/Trelleborg so it will be interesting to see how long they last.

[mylovelystim]

jon v8, if you read my story you would see that it was not just a question of replacing the iar springs, the compressor had worn its air compressor system out , so if you had done the 'repair' and given it back to me (the customer) and i had driven 300 miles away to collect a £35,000 mini digger on a trailer and the **** had sunken to the floor and wouldnt level out because the compressors ******ed , then i would not be pleased with you, also the sensors were mucky and showing signs of age, and for the sake of £60, this was a no brainer replacement.
trying to repair things on the cheap is all very well but down time is very expensive, the sls on that disco is now as new, therefore i dont expect problems for a reasonable period of time.
in my business , with my customer base, i cannot compomise with crap, hence my work truck is a hi lux!!!!!!!!!!!

[andymach23]

Read somewhere a while ago about a few people putting that tyre sealant into their porous airbags and it worked, well for now anyway:D



Lynall

Interesting idea Lynall as a get you home fix. I'm taking my boat on holiday soon and would be glad of a bodge to get me home. Would it be difficult to get the sealant into the air spring?

I'm think that the sealer has a nozzle that fits over a standard car type valve.

Any idea?

Cheers

Andy

[Jon v8]

jon v8, if you read my story you would see that it was not just a question of replacing the iar springs, the compressor had worn its air compressor system out , so if you had done the 'repair' and given it back to me (the customer) and i had driven 300 miles away to collect a £35,000 mini digger on a trailer and the **** had sunken to the floor and wouldnt level out because the compressors ******ed , then i would not be pleased with you, also the sensors were mucky and showing signs of age, and for the sake of £60, this was a no brainer replacement.
trying to repair things on the cheap is all very well but down time is very expensive, the sls on that disco is now as new, therefore i dont expect problems for a reasonable period of time.
in my business , with my customer base, i cannot compomise with crap, hence my work truck is a hi lux!!!!!!!!!!!I wish all owners had this attitude with repairs,but the simple fact is 99% of people will not allow the replacement of obviously worn components that still work.Every job I do I advise on what is necessary to make the car/system functional again and give options on ways of doing it depending on how old/how much work the car has done and the way it is used.Compared to 20 years ago when 90% of my customers would just say "Fix it and send me the bill" - and not even ask what was wrong with it,now the situation is much different.Last week a bloke rang up asking about a misfire on a TD4 F/L,when I told him what I could do to sort it I told him the diagnosis would be £35 + Vat he said he would have to call back as he did not have that much money.
So you see now we have to be very careful what we do,or risk not being paid,or getting angry phone calls when just down the road a component fails.
Its easy running a garage !

[mylovelystim]

i fully agree jon, most people would not/do not look after there assets and moan like hell when it goes wrong and squeel like pigs when they do have to repair it, or else ends up on ebay in "fantastic condition ,100% reliable" lying basterds!
being a farm boy you learn very early in life that kit has to be looked after (unless its competion!!!).
the puncture sealant trick would work ,but you would ave to remove the bag to allow the sealant to be coaxed around the bag, so carry a spare connector!
or pre empt the 'problem' and fit 2 new air bags!

[lynalldiscovery]

I dont reckon you would need to remove the air bag to distribute the sealant as the wear/ splitting/ perishing and hence the leaks will take place around the rolling lobe assembly at the bottom and the inside of the bag as it rubs up and down the piston assembly.

So as the bag naturally goes up and down whilst doing its job it will distribute the sealant on ist own.

Some of the trucks i see at work have this stuff in and it seals some big holes i have seen a few nails now with the telltale damp patch around them as the sealant gets to work


Lynall

[mylovelystim]

my wife gets the odd damp patch, will sealant work on her?

[martintd5]

make sure you carry a spare relay, my relay went and the rear suspension with it. The day before the relay blow I was driving in strong wind and suddenly in my rear veiw mirror I see my rear suspensions cover disappering, I went back and got the cover, I was 3 miles from home it was wet, windy and cold and I thought that i would drive home without the cover on, I got home with no problems and the next morning was frosty and I replaced the cover and the got into the drivers seat and turned the key, immediatley I see the sls warning light stay on. Then 2 hours later the rear suspension was down.
So do carry a spare relay and a compressor,2 air bags,2 sensors or a coil clamp, 2 spring seats, 4 bolts, 2 springs and a Tapping set.
Anyway I think like this:
rear suspension air system in totally crap and springs are better.:)

[swampythepikey]

just plug mine Mylovelystim ;)

[Dunlop]

I dont reckon you would need to remove the air bag to distribute the sealant as the wear/ splitting/ perishing and hence the leaks will take place around the rolling lobe assembly at the bottom and the inside of the bag as it rubs up and down the piston assembly.

So as the bag naturally goes up and down whilst doing its job it will distribute the sealant on ist own.

Some of the trucks i see at work have this stuff in and it seals some big holes i have seen a few nails now with the telltale damp patch around them as the sealant gets to work


Lynall


:eek: Not reccomended,

When the air suspension system lowers, it vents air back through your compressor, air dryer etc, etc. need i go on!!

[V8lover]

Further to Disco TD5 air spring leak, I have an airpipe leak where it's chafed against chassis. Can new pipe be inserted into brass connector on top of airspring or are they one-use only? i.e. New airsprings have removable plug which once removed allows cut pipe to be re-inserted, can pipe be pulled out of existing airspring and new pipe be inserted and seal correctly?

[Jon v8]

Further to Disco TD5 air spring leak, I have an airpipe leak where it's chafed against chassis. Can new pipe be inserted into brass connector on top of airspring or are they one-use only? i.e. New airsprings have removable plug which once removed allows cut pipe to be re-inserted, can pipe be pulled out of existing airspring and new pipe be inserted and seal correctly?
Yes,no problem.The whole air harness was cheap last time I had to fit one,bout £25 + Vat from memory.

[mrplebby]

have a problem with mine, wish i had springs instead of these stupid airbags.

[mrplebby]

ok jon i did think you was having a go at my comments but thanks for making that clear you wasnt..hope that your business dose do well and that the economic situation isnt effecting you to mutch
regards
matt:p


Mutch is much lol :D

[Pterinos]

Guys /Gals (for PC purposes),

Firstly I have to say hello, as I have only just joined this forum. In fact I have only just joined the hallowed ranks of owning a Land Rover. After allowing the pony lorry pass to another mortal coil, I was able to buy a toy I've always wanted.

Now haiving a 2001 Discovery 2, I can vouch for some of the problems that have been mentioned here. The only difference is the fact that mine seems to be quite random. Sometimes it holds up, other times it doesn't. Sometimes it stays up when you leave it, sometimes it doesn't. Doors open, doors closed. Raining, sun shining. We're getting somewhere in Afganistan, we're not (hearts out to them by the way).

Anyhow - I'm sure you are getting the picture, there seems to be nothing that shows any sort of consistancy.

Being that I am new to this sort of motoring I turned to these pages for some imparcial advice. Yup it would seem there is a few opinions, but all quite valid and all having their reasons for the way they wish to configure. All to one side, any advice as to how to get a good, quick and (most importantly) reliable fix would be very much appreciated.

[grantc]

Guys /Gals (for PC purposes),

Firstly I have to say hello, as I have only just joined this forum. In fact I have only just joined the hallowed ranks of owning a Land Rover. After allowing the pony lorry pass to another mortal coil, I was able to buy a toy I've always wanted.

Now haiving a 2001 Discovery 2, I can vouch for some of the problems that have been mentioned here. The only difference is the fact that mine seems to be quite random. Sometimes it holds up, other times it doesn't. Sometimes it stays up when you leave it, sometimes it doesn't. Doors open, doors closed. Raining, sun shining. We're getting somewhere in Afganistan, we're not (hearts out to them by the way).

Anyhow - I'm sure you are getting the picture, there seems to be nothing that shows any sort of consistancy.

Being that I am new to this sort of motoring I turned to these pages for some imparcial advice. Yup it would seem there is a few opinions, but all quite valid and all having their reasons for the way they wish to configure. All to one side, any advice as to how to get a good, quick and (most importantly) reliable fix would be very much appreciated.


It sounds as if the airbags are porous. Replace both bags (Paddocks about £70 each and that should fix it.

[Pterinos]

Grantc, thanks for the prompt response. I start down that road and let you now of the outcome.

[Pterinos]

It sounds as if the airbags are porous. Replace both bags (Paddocks about £70 each and that should fix it.


I have now done exactly as suggested here and the problem is solved.

Grantc, thank you for your advice! The prices at Paddock were even as you stated.

For info to others: www.discovery2.co.uk (http://www.discovery2.co.uk) has all the necessary instructions for the work to be carried out.

[rickyrooo1]

nice to see it's a common fault then - as posted in the show us your disco section mine has a droopy ar$e after an overnight parkup, ive spoken to the previous owner and he said it had a new spring one side a while ago as it dropped one side, now i have it and it sinks both sides equally - does anyone think it could be a pipe leaking? i don't want to change anything i don't need to - as it takes around 6-7 hours to drop down - how long will it be before it drops in a couple hours say? any info much appreciated even to the point of who is cheapest to repair or buy bits from? i'm in midlands area. cheers me dears !:D

[grantc]

Its an easy fix. As previous post said , go to Discovery2 website, or the instructions are in the box if you buy them from Paddocks (about £70 each). It is as well to look on the airbags as a service part. They seem to last 4/5 years on average,then become porous, where they get the most wear. Just replace the pair!

[rickyrooo1]

i'll look into it then - need to save a few quid 1st though as i spent all i had on it :D with ref to your half reply in the other thread - i haven't tried the off road setting although like i say - it seems to rise from low down to normal within seconds in a morning, below is a pic of it this morning just before i went to work showing how it sits evenly low at the back.

[thebiglad]

i'll look into it then - need to save a few quid 1st though as i spent all i had on it :D with ref to your half reply in the other thread - i haven't tried the off road setting although like i say - it seems to rise from low down to normal within seconds in a morning, below is a pic of it this morning just before i went to work showing how it sits evenly low at the back.

Hiya Rickyrooo, you've obviously got a leak somewhere in the air system and the most common place is in the bags themselves.

If you can imagine, this fault makes the compressor work MUCH harder than it would normally do, so it wears out much quicker. Do the bags quickly to save your compressor mate as they are a chunk of dosh (£250-ish from memory)

[ComicalEngineer]

my wife gets the odd damp patch, will sealant work on her?

No, you will need a special tool to plug that.

Post a photo of your wife and I'll see if mine would be any good... :D

[rickyrooo1]

Hiya Rickyrooo, you've obviously got a leak somewhere in the air system and the most common place is in the bags themselves.

If you can imagine, this fault makes the compressor work MUCH harder than it would normally do, so it wears out much quicker. Do the bags quickly to save your compressor mate as they are a chunk of dosh (£250-ish from memory)
yeah cheers biglad, i'm being fed lots of links on the net and does seem to be the best bet is to do them soon, i'd forgotten how much money you can throw at landys lol

[Pterinos]

Guys, guys, guys!

I am new to the LR side of things, but trained as an engineer that fortunately found a trade that is far better.

Pneumatic tubing of this type is of a nylon variaty and will take quite a few more years to degrade than Mcheal Jackson in the average tip. The point I am trying to make is that if the tubing has not been involved in some sort of direct mechanical stress then it is not going to fail (in the order of 10x-6). So with this in mind the most probale things would be the compressor or the air springs. If the car is moving up and down then it would be sensilbe to illiminate the compressor. If only one spring has been changed then the other should be considered, as the system is by its very nature a self leveling one ........ do them both, may be costly but will draw a line instantly.

[rickyrooo1]

now how silly is this.... as you know mine is leaking and overnight it drops level both sides on the rear, well last night i didn't reverse onto the drive i drove on (my drive faces downhill) so i could see if the sunroof rained in facing that way....and this morning the rear end is as high as when i left it!, i'm guessing then that reversing on normally transfers more weight to the rear causing more pressure on the leak? also the loadspace cover isn't wet today so unless it's filled the headlining with water we are getting somewhere lol.:rolleyes:

[Pterinos]

The suspension will demonstrate randomness with this sort of fault. The only thing you will note in time is that it happens more often and will be stressing the compressor. Here is a link with specific detail:

http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Rear%20Air%20Springs.html (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Rear%20Air%20Springs.html)

Good fix for the leak!!:D

[rickyrooo1]

The suspension will demonstrate randomness with this sort of fault. The only thing you will note in time is that it happens more often and will be stressing the compressor. Here is a link with specific detail:

http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Rear%20Air%20Springs.html (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Rear%20Air%20Springs.html)

Good fix for the leak!!:D
yeah i get the random thing....this morning it was parked facing downhill again and the back was low when i went out just :rolleyes: mind you i filled up with fuel yesterday so it's heavier than the day before....time to hunt for the parts and compare prices i think.

[rickyrooo1]

ok, i've ordered the springs from paddocks, looked on e-bay and craddocks sites and they are more expensive, paddocks doing an offer - web only deal?, get free clips with the springs...what they are for i dunno lol.. anyway £63.80 each plus vat @ 15% = £146.74 with free delivery on their economy service had economy service because i won't get chance to do them until at least next sunday - possibly the weekend after 'cos of prior engagements - unless i dare to do them after work one night? depends how long it takes i guess?

[thebiglad]

because i won't get chance to do them until at least next sunday - possibly the weekend after 'cos of prior engagements - unless i dare to do them after work one night? depends how long it takes i guess?



I'm led to believe it's only about 30mins each side ??

[rickyrooo1]

30 mins each side sounds cool, how many times have we said that with a landy and then been outside with worklamps and torches at midnight 'cos a bolt shears..............:D

[Pterinos]

Mine took a little under an hour for both, but experience dictates that anything that can go wrong, usually will. So to undertake it with the confines of time not on your side could prove to be frustrating. I never muttered the words 'this should be fairly easy' until the job was completed either.

I am not superstitious by the way:eek:

The link from discover2 I placed on an earlier thread is very comprhensive and is exactly how the event unfolded. The clips are a good idea as sometimes a little gamey to get the old ones off without damaging them.

Good look and let us know how you get on.

[rickyrooo1]

The link from discover2 I placed on an earlier thread is very comprhensive and is exactly how the event unfolded. The clips are a good idea as sometimes a little gamey to get the old ones off without damaging them.

Good look and let us know how you get on.

yeah the link is very good - i will follow that, i don't understand the bit about push in air pipes/screw in and cutting the pipe? but i suppose it will make more sense "in the flesh" so to speak - when i see the top of my old ones/new ones?
anyhooooooo i'll of course post a couple of pic's and some blurb on here when i do it.

[Pterinos]

The air connections will become fairly obvious when you are presented with them.

Essentially there are two types of pneumatic connection available. Firstly is the standard land rover and this has an olive and nut configuration. This will be what is on your discovery (unless been changed before) so will require the modification as described. Be sure to cut it as cleanly and as flush to the olive as you can, I just had my able bodied assistant hold a block of wood against the chassis for me.

The second is a push fit type connector, which is the type your new springs will arrive from Paddocks with. Once you have trimmed the olive off the end of your pipe you simply push it in as far as it will go (approx 10-12mm). It will lock in there by a tapered collar of some sort and Bob’s your uncle. To release the pipe again there is a small metal collar that needs to be pushed into the connections housing whilst gently pulling the pipe (a sort of quick release affair really). These connectors are very good, very robust and can withstand some pretty serious pressures – even if they don’t look that way!

Just one other point, when you cut off the olive you will notice that there is a shoulder on the pipe which is about 12-15mm from the end. I am guessing that this is as a result of the process that originally fixed the olive there. Be sure not to take too much pipe away with the olive, as it will foul on the new connector and possibly not allow enough for pipe to give the necessary grip.

Hope this is a bit of help and good luck…..

[rickyrooo1]

well, what a game...... i got the springs from paddocks and they arrived tuesday (the day before the disco was due to go back for some warranty work to be done) so i contacted the dealer and asked if i provided the springs would they fit them, as i still thought it unfair they wouldn't do them on warranty.....we came to a mutual agreement which meant i paid a small ammount of labour - but i thought sod it at least i can use my free time for myself and not have the worry of doing it. however, i recieved a phone call yesterday afternoon saying the springs were on but wouldn't inflate! i asked if they had the doors shut they said no :rolleyes: so i told them to shut the doors and try again - this is after they had rang the landrover service part of stratstone to ask them why it wouldn't work (i had it from stratsone volvo) they then rang me back to say yes they were now inflating but not lifting level and they were stuck so they would have to try again today, i'm now driving round in a volvo :eek: and hoping they ain't done summat wrong, any ideas - incase they ring me later and ask if i know?:D

[rickyrooo1]

Got it back all seems ok guess ill find out next few days if it stays level overnight etc

[Pterinos]

Did they give any indication as to what they did?

[rickyrooo1]

Did they give any indication as to what they did?
all seems ok now been on a few days and stays up - they just retried it in the morning and it was ok - i'm guessing the sensors on the axles were just finding their feet so to speak, that discovery2 web site says they need to settle down so it must have been that? - all ok now:)

[Pterinos]

good news then!