Prepping for extreme cold

[Grumbleweed]

Has anyone had any experience with prepping an engine for extreme cold- i.e. -20 and below?

Am planning a trip to Finland later in the year and would like to know if things like Diesel heaters, sump heaters and anything else is really necessary. If so, where to get them.

Would the kenlowe electric water heater do the same thing as a sump heater in keeping the engine in good health? It is only a 2 week trip so am not looking to go mad with gear, but i dont want to get stranded there either.

So far, there are possibly 5 landies going. Plan is to get to Rovaniemi in the arctic circle in mid January 2010. We have my 110, a 90, a disco and a RRC with possibly another 110 joining.

We all have mud tyres suitable for the legal requirements of snow tyres for the countries we intend to travel through.

Has anyone else done this trip? I would like to hear any itineries or suggestions for kit!

[leeds]

Have only been there in the summer months. Best advice would come from local club.

Swedish club at www.slrk.org (http://www.slrk.org) have a English forum. Have not found an English forum on the Finnish club site

HTH

Regards

Brendan

[Swingletree]

If it was my vehicle I would install a 12v coolant heater and pump. Then I would tap off the coolant into a copper pipe that did a loop of the sump and back. That way, the coolant stays warm, keeping the heater and the engine oil warm.

Most of the Landys that the army uses in Canada (-40ish in winter) don't have any extra prep apart from a really strong coolant/antifreeze mix!

HTH

[saltireblue]

Two main things.
1. Make sure your anti-freeze mix is going to withstand the lower temps, as Swingle said,
and
2. arrive with as little diesel in your tank as possible as diesel here in Scandinavia has an additive (harmless for your engine) which makes it perform in the cold. Without the additive the diesel freezes.

[Swingletree]

^^^^^^ Anti waxing agent can be bought in the UK, you can also use kerosene but I don't know what ratio it should be mixed to.

[Grumbleweed]

Superb- much appreciated guys.

[saltireblue]

Hello again,
I would also advise that you take chains. I know you said you have M&S tyres, but it's not for nothing we have winter tyres in Scandinavia. I have tried so-called M&S all year tyres, and they just don't do the job.
I don't mean 1 set of chains per vehicle, just as many sets to fit all wheel dims. in your convoy.
Small shovels are useful.
Towing ropes.
If one of you has sand ladders, they work well on snow.


Make sure you have a small bottle of lock oil to squirt in your locks and buy a silicon stick and go round all the rubber door seals. Then you won't have doors frozen fast on you.

If you can't get lock oil / silicone stick, PM me and I'll send you some.

[Stumpy Doofleer]

I have used spray grease on the locks and door rubbers, makes a big difference in the cold.

[tiny]

Grumbleweed,

i was in the Royal Marines for 13 years, other than a webasto engine pre heater and extra thermal insulation inside, our vehicles had studded tyres as well. The main thing is like the guys have said prevoiusly the coolant mix. We never had any probs with locks or doors seals during many winter months in Norway. Heated windscreen is a good idea as well.

tiny

[saltireblue]

Just to make the question of a Webasto a bit more clear.

It is not necessary.

However, it is a very nice optional extra to have in the winter.

But, as long as your car generrally is in good nick, and specifically, coolant mixture is correct, and battery is not on it's last legs then you will have no problems.

Don't make the mistake of thinking a Webasto is a must:)

[rtrevor]

Hi

I was at North Cape in January 2008, returning through Finland; nights were -35°C, some days it did not get warmer than -28°C. I used local "winter diesel", good for minus thirties apparently, and the northern Finnish variety is "extra strong", meaning apparently OK down to minus fifty.

I have a Webasto Top P in my 2006 Defender 90, which was handy: I tried not using it one morning, and the engine started without demur, but after an hour of driving the cab interior was still below zero. Using the Webasto heats the engine more quickly and keeps it warm when necessary, generating enough heat that the heater works (using the Webasto, the cab warmed up to 12°C even when it was -30°C outside).

I used Cooper M&S tyres, without spikes: excellent, amazing grip on ice and packed snow.

I didn't use a radiator muff. The only prep was to ensure engine oil was suitable for the cold; the standard gearbox oil, diff oil and brake fluid is all fine for the kind of temperatures you'll find there. Apart from that, the standard Defender works fine.

I slept in the vehicle, and to keep warm without the engine running I fitted a Webasto Airtop air heater in the cubby box: true luxury... it'll heat the little Defender 90 to 25°C in ten minutes no matter what the temperature outside! It uses a cupful of diesel an hour, and makes winter camping extremely civilised.

I took a few pics, at http://picasaweb.google.com/rixa64

Have fun up there!

Richard

[discocuzzy]

Hi Richard,

Great gallery pics..i only live a mile or so away from and am planning a couple of trips this year...could do with picking your brains re finland if possible.

Pm me your details and hopefully can hook up for a natter.

Regards

Steve

[Stumpy Doofleer]

Great pics brought back some great memories when I did the trip to Nordkapp in 2003 in my Mk3 golf, though it was in June, had to arrive for the longest day on the 21st, me and a mate did 6214 miles in 2 weeks, drove all the way myself:eek:.

[greenbert]

Hi

I'd like to meet up with the expedition if you're still planning it, although i'd be driving over to Rovaniemi from Sweden. Any excuse to see Santa..

Oliver

[littlelegs]

Fantastic pictures but too many for one go! The electric coolant heaters mentioned are only of use with a mains power supply! An Erberspacher, Webasto or Mikini etc. is the only way to provide alternative heat.

[clarkster]

Fantastic pictures. Real food for thought. Are fumes a problem from this heater fitted in the Cubby running on Diesel ?

[toppa]

For those temps, i would look at either eberspacher heater or smiler for the cab....

Oh nad i have snow chains that may fit your truck, pop over one weekend beofre you go and we try them if you like :)


Cheers

[rtrevor]

Hi
The diesel heater for the cab (Webasto Airtop) has an external air inlet and exhaust for the burner, but takes internal air and heats that - so no fumes at all. The exhaust from the burner is in the front offside wheelarch.
For cold climates I cannot recommend air heaters enough: after two minutes they pump out dry, warm air, whether or not the engine is running. A timer is standard, so I usually set it to come on soon before I want to get up in the morning, which makes a big difference...
The Airtop I use, the smallest available, warms the cab up within ten minutes from -10°C to 22°C.

[toppa]

Hi
The diesel heater for the cab (Webasto Airtop) has an external air inlet and exhaust for the burner, but takes internal air and heats that - so no fumes at all. The exhaust from the burner is in the front offside wheelarch.
For cold climates I cannot recommend air heaters enough: after two minutes they pump out dry, warm air, whether or not the engine is running. A timer is standard, so I usually set it to come on soon before I want to get up in the morning, which makes a big difference...
The Airtop I use, the smallest available, warms the cab up within ten minutes from -10°C to 22°C.

They are worth their weight in gold :)

I have never use mine in those sort of temps, only here in england, and have top say when i was using my truck on a daily basis, i would set the timer to start about 1/2 hour before i left for work, truck very warm, all ice melted and windows clear :)

Cheers

[clarkster]

:eek: I just saw the price. With so much to do and impending service and the smoke issue to resolve I'll have to look into othe ideas or possibly renting a unit.

I'm planning on insulating her entirely for sound which should show some thermal increases too and I may even go for extra insulation on top of that purely aimed at reflecting what heat there is back into the vehicle.

I have to get my head around the whole condensation thing first. I have friends in Finland, the North has always been a destination I'd like to visit and for some odd reason I'm drawn to an extreme cold experience. To do it in the Landy would be a great first foreign expedition. Although I will loo to trial everything in Scotland before venturing any further as I am new to owning and driving a Land Rover.

[toppa]

Watch ebay, the heaters are always on there :)

Cheers

[alex_p]

I've got a 4000W modified sine-wave inverter hooked up in my 90, with 3 240V 3-pin plug outlets and a USB power outlet mounted on the bulkhead behind the passenger seat. I use it to power a normal 1000W-2000W electric heater. Heats the cab from 0 degrees to 20 in under 3 minutes. Very useful for other things like laptops, mobiles or even microwaves. Hot soup in 2 minutes anywhere you want! :D

Alex

[littlelegs]

I use a 3000 watt 24 volt inverter in my boat for the kettle, toaster, microwave and cooker with a smaller one for low energy lighting but I do have large batteries and alternator for extended use! 2000 watts will draw up to 200 amps with efficiency loses from a 12 volt battery and won't last very long but ok for some minutes!