ird unit and gearbox gone at the same time???

[jamieb61]

hi all!

recently towards the end of a long trip a slight knocking noise developed from the bottom of the engine on my 2002 1.8 freelander. the noise got louder and louder until i came to a halt when the noise got unbearable and i could hear something was seriously wrong. the engine still ticked over fine and i could still engage all of the gears, it was moving that was the problem...every 5 meters or so a grinding of metal.

ok so i got the car picked up by a recovery truck and taken to a local garage where they diagnosed the problem as being the ird unit or transfer box as they called it. i sourced myself one second hand because it was too expensive to buy new and had it sent out to me in spain. took the new part too the garage only to be called 2 days later telling me that the gearbox is gone too! and not only that but it had taken them 10 hours of labour to find this out, without even calling me! obviously i am very annoyed because i would have wanted to go and see for myself that there was another problem straight afetr the new ird was fitted. now i am a builder not a mechanic so i need some advice before i confront them on monday morning..... 1.does it sound feasable that both items went at the same time and only after fitting the new ird can you discover the gearbox has gone too?. 2. does 10 hrs seem close to how long it would take to remove/ replace ird and open up the gearbox?

i suspect that as i am english they may be trying to pull a fast one. either way they should have called me after they fitted the ird which was the work we had agreed too and let me come and inspect the new problem to decide what i wanted to do right?

thanks for reading and hope someone can help!

cheers

jamie

[TEMPL4R]

You drop the front subframe and change the IRD, about 2 hours max. I can do a clutch in around 4-5 hours on a 1.8. 10 hours seems excessive for a professional outfit.

It's the driveline between the front and rear wheels that winds up, not the line back to the engine.

It's no good changing the IRD or rear diff without checking out the VC, that is the cause of the failure. The IRD oil will go silvery or grey as the hardening comes off the gears or bearings, then teeth fracture.
Now the IRD has been changed, if it drives OK in a straight line but bangs around corners, check the rear subframe, front mounting on the drivers side.

I've never had a gearbox fail yet, maybe one of the other lads has.

Chris

[dann]

Difficult situation:

The garage may not have a good understanding of Freelander transmission.

Lack of communication between garage and yourself during repairs/diagnosis is worrying.

Questions I would ask the garage:

Was the vehicle road tested after IRD replacement?

If there was a problem why didn't they call you?

Why does the garage think the gearbox is faulty?

Has the vehicle been road tested with propshafts removed?

I just hope you don't get there and find it all stripped down!

Good luck.D..

[jamieb61]

thank you both...some of that is a little technical for me.
what is a V.C?
i will take a note of all those questions to take with me, i do fear i will find it stripped down though, which i cant believe they would just go ahead and do without first asking my permision but, there is no way i would have let them without going over there and looking at the new problem. is there a chance that they mis diagnosed the original problem andare now trying to cover there tracks? is there any way i can check the ird that they have taken off?
cheers
jamie

[jamieb61]

also i have just read on another thread that you need to top up or change the oil in the ird...could me not doing this have been the cause of the problem!?

[dann]

Jamie, Do you know any expat Brits out there with motor trade experience who could help out with the technical stuff? I believe your main problem with the garage is that they haven't kept you informed throughout the repair/diagnosis procedures. D..

[jamieb61]

unfortunately i dont, there is only a small expat community here and no mechanics:( my girlfriend is spanish so i have been able to understand everything they have told me, the problem being at this last development they didnt tell us anything, i will get a clearer picture of where the breakdown in comms came and the nature of the new problem when i get there i guess, would just be nice to have half a clue what i am talking about when i get there!

[dann]

Jamie, Basically if when you get there the vehicle is in one piece, ask them to remove the propshafts, this puts the vehicle into front wheel drive only. If you now test drive the vehicle and it drives quite well with no banging and crunching, you can assume that the gearbox is not too bad and the basic cause of the problem is somewhere between the gearbox and the rear axle. The main culprit is the VCU (Viscous coupling Unit) i.e. the big lump between the two propshafts.
If when you get there the gearbox is in pieces, well then I wish you luck.D..

[kretur]

Just to put your mind at rest, I have had much the same problem as you with regard to the IRD and the Gearbox. The difference being the "knocking" noise starting at 70 mph on the M74 rapidly turning from "slight" to "bloody terrifying at 70!!"

The symptoms of the knock every few meters was very evident after I had stopped. I had the IRD replaced - I had had the VCU replaced a few days before, and so far that has held up.

The gearbox problem soon became evident after the new IRD had been put in. Every so often it would skip out of 5th gear on its own. Initially I thought is was a problem with the clutch, maybe not letting the gears engage properly. So I had the garage look at the clutch, and asked them to check out the gearbox too. Turns out the IRD breaking had ripped the gearbox apart too - so that had to be replaced.

Since I have already had the rear diff (and bearings) replaced, I now have a complete new (or almost new) drive train, and so far my freebie has never run better.

Hope this helps.

Les

[jamieb61]

ok so the saga continues! and gets worse:(
the garage called me yesterday to tell me that now the replacement ird that i had sent must have been faulty as when the gearbox was fitted they started up the engine and and tried it at high speed there was a big crack sound from the bottom of the car and sure enough the ird had cracked and was spilling all the oil out! they had previously told me that the new ird was ok but that was before it had been tested with a functioning gearbox...does all this sound plausible from there side??? as if it does i will try and get my money back for the transfer box, or is there something else causing the problem, the part i think is the v.c.u seems fine as do the propshafts.

[dann]

Wow! what a nightmare you're having.

Did the IRD unit crack before the vehicle was actually road tested?

The supplier could refuse a refund/replacement:

Did the garage check the IRD condition before fitting and did they fit the IRD correctly.

What have they done to the gearbox?

If the IRD failed during road test it could be due to problems with VCU / VCU bearings or worn propshaft joints causing major stress at the IRD.

Very difficult situation. Good luck. D..

[jamieb61]

i don't think they actually got it out on the road, think they had it up on car lift thing!? so yes before...i believe.

i dont think he will give me my money back on it and i dont blame him as i had already told him it was ok, which was what the mechanic had told me when he fitted it. as for fitting it correctly that i wouldnt know but they are an official opel service garage and seem to be pretty good..i think if they have made a mistake its probably just down to the fACT THEy are not familiar with freelanders and there problems.

the gearbox has been changed as after they fitted the new now broken ird they told me that the ird was now ok and the prob wasthe gearbox.

is there any way i can check the v.c.u myself? i did look under there and it all looked quite solid and new but i am no mechanic and didnt know what i was looking for??
cheers
jamie

[dann]

As it seems from what you say that the IRD failed before the vehicle was actually driven either the IRD was incorrectly fitted or they tried to test the transmission on brake rollers which can cause this sort of disaster on permanent 4wd vehicles.

I would remove both propshafts and stow them in the car. Make up an IRD from the best bits of the two you have, leaving out the drive pinion (the bit that bolts to the front prop) fit an IRD blanking plate where the pinion was (available from ebay £20) the car should now drive happily in front wheel drive only. You can now find another garage in Spain with more knowledge of Landrover transmissions.

Good luck.D..