Unpleasant experience with lrseries.com

[shinais]

My right front halfshaft broke some time ago, but as having 4x4 is not crucial for me I preferred to wait with ordering a new one until I got the need for more parts. (To save shipping and customs expenses)
Now MOT is coming up and I have an oil leakage that has contaminated the brake shoes. Decided to do it all in once and ordered the parts I was missing, seals, lands etc, along with some other bits an pieces.
Got a written confirmation from lrseries that the halfshaft was in stock, the dispatch confirmation (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8823/despatch.gif) also showed all parts were included. As you can see, the shaft is about half of the total cost of the order
After 4 days, when checking shipping progress, I discovered that the shaft was NOT included (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2325/despatch1.gif).
Sent an email, asking why they hadn't contacted me as I could have taken another option (they earlier said that several options was in stock, OEM, complete, just inner shaft etc).
After waiting one week without any reply I sent a reminder. I then got an arrogant answer which clearly showed that they had not bothered checking my original mail.
Now it turned out that NONE of the shaft options was in stock.... I then asked for refund of the shipping costs (£50) so I could order somewhere else. They refused. This lead to a discussion in which I had to take, in my opinion, some rude and arrogant comments from their salesman.
Some examples, quoting directly here:
"going down the slander route"
"you have chosen to take a very childish route which i must point out may be splanderous in which case is illegal, i must warn you we do take action."
"Did you choose to ignore that part??"
"i think you may have a little to much time on your hands and just like complaining (or i may be wrong but you have certianly given that impression)."
"you will have no more direct contact from us, so please refrain from emailing us directly"

Telling others about bad experience with companies is something that the Internet has made possible.
However, you have to do your best to try give an well documented story. Which I have tried to do here.
And informing the company, giving them an opportunity to tell their version. Which I'm doing, giving the a direct link to this topic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: The above post was originally posted in another forum, but moved here.
After telling lrseris about the post a got a quick replay:

Dear Sir, as advised we will be taking action against you for your biased
and untrue coments posted on a public forum, you have NOT as instructed
included any of our emails to you offering to resolve the matter to your and
our satisfaction.

You will be receiveing a letter from our solictiors with 3 working days to
the address we sent your goods to.

I am the owner of the company adn am not willing to argue my facts and
offers in public as previously stated.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent them an email as a last attempt to sort out the conflict, but they did not answer. Neither did I hear from their solicitor.

If anyone should be interested, a copy of all mail can be found here.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7354/lrseries.png) My case is closed, I'm posting this so other members don't run into the same trouble, especially foreigners with high shipping/customs charges:
Tell lrseries explicitly to contact you if there is a problem with your order....
Hopefully lrseries will also take this more seriously in the future.

[roryf]

Upon reading the transcript, it appears that LRseries have been really quite reasonable and have made many efforts to solve the issues.

[ATO]

Upon reading the transcript, it appears that LRseries have been really quite reasonable and have made many efforts to solve the issues.

I disagree, I think LRseries have been a bit shoddy here..they should be aware and take into account the problems of ordering large items from overseas. Shinais would not have made an order at all if the main part was not available, LRseries said it was available so shinais ordered - I can totally understand the frustration & I don't think LRseries handled it well at all.

EDIT - don't know what this scoring thing is at the side..can't get rid of it now!

[shinais]

Thanks Ato, that exactly how I see it. As far as I can tell I did what I could to avoid the situation. lrseries did not follow up the info given in their own FAQ, telling me it was a problem with the order before shipping. £50 is not silly money for me.

[DavidL]

Made full comment earlier on a related thread:
http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?p=1300559#post1300559

However, in summary, it does seem like such an easily-avoided problem, particularly after re-reading - and noting the comments in LRS own FAQ on "Order Complications" that I am quite inclined to agree with ATO.

Poor show all round, and good luck getting it sorted.
-David

[parts@]

Hello, i feel i should make the point which everyone seems to be missing, the chap didnt order the part i confirmed WAS in stock! he has also NOT provided at least 65% of the emails we sent him to resolve the matter! you are making assumptions on very little fact provided by this chap.

Dont forget he actually ordered many many more parts, this was just 1 part which made up less than a 3rd of his order value, he would not accept any of our offers to help he only wanted a refund of his full outward shipping cost (£50 which includes customs charges of £25) of which he had used in the receipt of the major part of his multi part order AND we did contact him to keep him informed, you can read between the lines that we had trouble with him only reading emails he chose to!


Search lrseries on the forum and you will see we are known for our GOOD service not bad customer relations, we pride ourselves taking on board all customer comments good and bad and doing something about them were possible (listing replacement brands is the latest),we do make improvements when we feel it will help make our site better for you the customer.
I feel this thread is getting out of hand and others are jumping on and also making false acusations which i have PM'd them to point out were they had over looked delivery times etc.


if any of you have any comments you think would improve the site or your buying experiance then please let me know, you can contact me directly through our site.


Last of my rant, i can assure you all you are only seeing a fraction of this chaps emails and he has only cherry picked a few choice emails from us.


If any of you have any problems while buying form lrseries contact me and i will resolve any problem to your satisfaction as i always try to do.


Finally David i have taken your comments on board and i have contacted our web site tech chaps and we are going to try and set something up along the lines you suggested (its not an overnight thing though, it may take a few weeks)

many thanks, Dom (lrseries)

[DavidL]

Hi Dom,

Many thanks for getting in touch here; also, I do appreciate that a story is not complete until it has been told by all involved. I realise that simple omissions can skew a story and as such, I for one am still open to any important corrections or points I have missed.

Again, I should reiterate that I am trying to maintain an Neutral-POV, and I realise you feel that your company has been misrepresented. I guess the best way to combat that is to detail important areas in which your side of the story differs from what we've read so far. It may be helpful if I detail my understanding below, allowing any corrections to be made:-

FWIW, I did note that the transcript-discussed part numbers (57xxxx, 27xxxx) differed from the ordered part number (FRCxxxx), however it does appear that is something of a moot point. I think it is reasonable to assume that parts MAY be out of stock or unavailable; it is perhaps what happens after this that is most important.
BTW, when I suggested an improvement to the current system, I am simply meaning in the form of a confirmation email or phone call before despatch. While I think we all agree that a fully-integrated online inventory system akin to Amazon (or similar) would be ideal for all parties, I think we can all appreciate that as a small business, the required investment for such a system is likely to be somewhat financially crippling(!)

Personally, the important issue would seem to be centred on the following sequence of events:
1) Shinais places a multi-item order with LRSeries. It is likely that at this point, he is under the impression that all parts are in stock, possibly due to a mix up in the phrasing or PNs quoted in an email exchange.
2) LRSeries pick the order, noting that one of the parts included in the order is not available (at the moment?).
3) LRSeries despatch the incomplete order to Shinais
4) Shinais notes on the "Order Update" page that the order has had item FRCxxxx deleted as the supplier is unable to supply, and the emails start.
5) Unfortunately, at some point during the email negotiations, goodwill is lost, tempers are raised - on both sides - and accusations and threats begin to exchange.

For me, the step at which the problem arises is not step 1 - but step 3. By despatching a different order to the customer (i.e. it is missing an item) to that they have ordered, does this not an create an issue of an unfulfilled contract? Additionally, the LRSeries website states - at http://www.lrseries.com/shop/conditions/shipping/ - that "If there are any complications with your order, e.g. out of stock parts etc. then we will contact you to discuss the options"
This seems a rather prudent and important step.

The important point therefore seems to be: did LRSeries contact Shinais to confirm whether despatch of the remaining items only would be acceptable?
A) If LRSeries did, and Shinais agreed, then this would seem a storm over nothing - I would agree that LRSeries are in the right and should look to have any false comments removed and this important additional information added.
B) If LRSeries did not, and Shinais was unaware of the missing item until after despatch, then it would seem that Shinais is right to complain and there is still an unresolved issue. I am not sure what would amount to a fair resolution here, and it is perhaps better for both parties to seek legal advice if they cannot agree this between them.

FWIW, and breaking from a NPOV for a minute; my personal opinion is that if outcome A did not happen, and B holds true, then this does not paint LRSeries - or any supplier - in a good light.

I will say no more at the moment, other than an important disclaimer :) :
I am not a lawyer, nor do I have any relevant qualifications; all of the above represents only my opinion based on information presented, and is not to be considered legal advice.

All the best and I really do hope to read that the situation gets resolved satisfactorily.
-David

[JayHoe]

Well I have just rated you guys 5 across the board, never a single issue with LRSeries. I have had an order problem in the past, but it was sorted immediately, so I regard that as no problem at all.

The PO may well feel that they have a problem with an order from LRS that they feel has not been dealt with - fair enough, I don't want to get involved - but the point I want to make is is it fair to mark them down on ease of use, ease of fitting etc etc because of it? You may regard a 1 for "would you recommend" based on your problem as correct, but surely not a 1 for everything. It smacks of a little spite really.

Dom, just to say, I and others just love the Manufacturers details on parts - great move that, enabling us to choose when to go 'pattern' and when not. Keep up the good work.

John (regular customer)

[ATO]

Well I have just rated you guys 5 across the board, never a single issue with LRSeries. I have had an order problem in the past, but it was sorted immediately, so I regard that as no problem at all.

The PO may well feel that they have a problem with an order from LRS that they feel has not been dealt with - fair enough, I don't want to get involved - but the point I want to make is is it fair to mark them down on ease of use, ease of fitting etc etc because of it? You may regard a 1 for "would you recommend" based on your problem as correct, but surely not a 1 for everything. It smacks of a little spite really.

Dom, just to say, I and others just love the Manufacturers details on parts - great move that, enabling us to choose when to go 'pattern' and when not. Keep up the good work.

John (regular customer)

I don't think anyone has been paying attention to the rating thing on the left..I didn''t realise it would appear..as you can see above LRSeries have replied and rated themselves 1 for everything as well! a bit confusing.

EDIT - whoops I did it again!

[DavidL]

Ditto here - the ratings appearing << here do not reflect my views!

-David

[shinais]

Hello, i feel i should make the point which everyone seems to be missing, the chap didnt order the part i confirmed WAS in stock! he has also NOT provided at least 65% of the emails we sent him to resolve the matter! you are making assumptions on very little fact provided by this chap.Cant believe how a vendor can tell such blatant lies about a customer..
Luckily they do it in public so everyone can see themselves how this company behaves.
As said, all communication is available at the link above, how they can say that more than 65% is missing is beyond me.
I've been running large internet forums for years and, knock on wood, NEVER, EVER seen a vendor behaving like this. Utterly unprofessional by lrseries.
They didn't even follow up on their threat to take legal actions against me.

[Big Sandy]

We (LRUK) have tired to be fair here, Shinais complained to me that we were removing his right of free speech by removing the first thread, which in a way we were, I suppose. It was actually removed in the hope that both parties could maybe re-assess their positions, and perhaps reach a mutually satisfactory agreement without the sideshow of a thread full of argument.

Shinais is quite sure however that his 'case' is closed, which is a great shame, as I feel sure that LRSeries would have liked to resolve the issue, as much as Shinais would like to have it resolved.

For what my view is worth, I have always found LRSeries to be polite, helpful, courteous, and honest. I have ordered things one day, and got them the next day (a rarity where I live, and postal charges from LRSeries have never involved surcharges for me, which is also a rarity here). I have no qualms about recommending LRSeries to anybody, and I certainly have no issues with ordering parts from them myself (in the very near future).

All I can say is that we have all had bad experiences with suppliers, I know I certainly have, and that there are bound to be problems along the line at some point, especially as companies get bigger. I hope that some resolution can be found between the two parties..I would rather hear that there had been a problem and it had been resolved. It does take both parties to to agree to reach a compromise though.

The review panel to the left...well, I didn't give a score...Its a bit academic to do that at the moment. However, based on my previous experiences with LRSeries, I would give 5 for value, 5 for quality, and 5 as the recommendation, the other two options don't fit the bill at the moment.


I am a bit dismayed at Shinais last comments... I feel that a line should be drawn under this now. He has made his comments, LRSeries have made their comments..the rest of us will just have to make our own minds up. I for one will still be using them, as I have NEVER had a problem.

[shinais]

Sandy, I have made an effort to be sure that all available information is presented so people can decide for themselves what they think about this case.
When lrseries then accuse me for "NOT provided at least 65% of the emails we sent him to resolve the matter! you are making assumptions on very little fact provided by this chap."
I must have a right to respond.

You should ask lrseries to come up with the information I am supposed to have held back. If they cant, well, that speak for itself..

[Pinocchio]

i cannot see that Shinais`experiences with lrseries.com are one of a kind.

Norwegian LR forum has listed several members with rather unplesant stories to tell. One member had also visited lrseries, and story that followed are worst one ever.....:eek:

It will of course be very easy for lrseries.com to document that not all emails have been listed by shinais. Otherwise it will not be to smart to accuse a customer of telling a lie in a public forum.... no matter what ....

P

[Lighting90]

Okay, it has been said that he has posted all the correspondence on the webpage link above, yet you see LRseries inform about various part numbers on the 5th June, and then the next message (16th June) is him showing his anger that a part has been refunded, which is quoted as a different number to the ones quoted in the message of the 5th of June. So what happened between those dates, why has that correspondence not been included...

Also noticed that threats were made by Shinals first, (going to tell his creditcard company...) also,noticed that he seemed to gloat at the fact he and made a big point to LRseries that he had posted on this forum a threated complaining about them.

He seems to be making a lot of fuss that he has not received the solicitors letter from LRSeries, yet he didn't follow through his threat either with the credit card company.

Please point out where Shinal has stated that he must have the halfshaft overall other parts, only stated this afterwards, not during the order, unless it is in the section of missing correspondence. The problem is, so often people get upset if they don't get their order, they get upset if they don't get part of the order, and even get upset when they do get a full order if it doesn't arrive by the time you put the phone down.... have heard some classic excuses for the reason of a delay, best so far is an escaped lion in the street... I know the neighbours is rather large plump tabby cat,but I don't think you could mistake it for a lion....:D

Personally, reading through the correspondence, even the selected version it seems, Shinal seems hellbent on getting only what he wants from this, without any form of compromise. Defenatiely both parties have managed to antagonize each other that is for sure, with threats, counter threats.

Still find it hard to believe that the parts sent are not of use... how much out of pocket would he be if he took up the offer presented, £25 by calculations. That is if he does not order any other additional parts. If I had been in Shinal's position, I would have been asking if any offers could be made on various other parts that would be nice to have, and tried to get the £25 loss to disappear completely... done it before myself, where once I have said i could do with this or that, it has been supplied free as a secondhand item.

I haven't used LRseries, have used many other suppliers though, and have had similar problems with them, but I have always found away to compromise with them, but to do that, you have to try and give a little...