used cooking oil

[straggler]

Hi all,

I'm currently filtering used cooking oil with filters from a coffee machine. I allow it to settle for a few weeks and drain off the glycerine (or is it glycerol?) and use it at a max 10% in a 1994 Defender TDI. I rely on the fuel filter to pick up any stray bits of crap.

I live in Africa and the temperature is pretty much always 25C + so I'm guessing the thickness of the oil won't be a problem.

So my question is whether what I'm doing is ok?! I realise it's not the most scientific method but getting all the weird and wonderful chemical stuff to do it by the book isn't possible here.

Thanks,

Rich

[cadfael]

:) No Rich, the stuff you're draining off is just gunge and water ...avoid it like the plague, better to lose a little usable fuel than get that into the system!!:eek:
Glycerine/glycerol is a resultant by-product from the chemical transesterification process, and usable in its own right for making soap.
You could build a digester and use either of these "discards" to make methane ...now there's a project!!:D:D:rolleyes:
Mike.

[straggler]

Sorry, are you saying what I'm doing is ok - fitering used oil, draining off the gunge and then using the oil at max 10% should be ok?

Thanks

[cadfael]

Should be ok up to 80% Straggler, provided you filter it down to about 2 microns, where it should be bright and clear.
It may be worthwhile running it up to 50c to drive off any residual water before using.
Mike

[Musher]

Straggler, eventually you will kill the engine. The Tdi is a direct injection engine and is doing exactly that, injecting directly into the cylinder not into a pre-combustion chamber as in an indirect injection engine. When the engine is cold the veg oil is being sprayed directly into a cool cylinder and will not combust fully, a residue will form in the pot which gums up the rings reducing compression ( even in tropical climates). Similarly when you switch off any remaining veg oil will solidify in the pots. Once the rings are gummed excess veg oil can get past the rings and into the sump oil where it will mix with the mineral oil and a chemical reaction begins that can turn the entire contents of the sump to jelly over night with the inevitable resultant seized engine.

The Tdi engine is not a good engine to run on veg oil but it is possible, just, if you twin tank it and start and finish on diesel and don't allow it to idle for too long when running on veg oil even in a 10% mix.

Have a look at this forum http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php . If you put 300tdi in the search facility there is a lot about safely converting a Land Rover to run on veg oil.

If you don't believe me about the damage that can be done, I've been there and done that with a Mercedes E300TD that got gummed rings, this being an indirect injection engine with Bosch injector pump that is supposed to be the best engine to run on 100% veg oil.

DON'T RUN IT ANYMORE WITH VEG OIL UNTIL YOU HAVE MADE MODIFICATIONS OR IT WILL BE BYE BYE LANDY!!!

[ianhl]

you should really run with a twin tank conversion to be safe...start and stop on derv, main mileage on heated veggie. have a look at this site, good bunch of guys, but due to your location probably only good for information!

http://www.dieselveg.com/

i converted my 300tdi about 18 months ago and have had no problems (apart from the turbo going pop last week, but i dont think it was because of the veg...)

[yostumpy]

Straggler, eventually you will kill the engine. The Tdi is a direct injection engine and is doing exactly that, injecting directly into the cylinder not into a pre-combustion chamber as in an indirect injection engine. When the engine is cold the veg oil is being sprayed directly into a cool cylinder and will not combust fully, a residue will form in the pot which gums up the rings reducing compression ( even in tropical climates). Similarly when you switch off any remaining veg oil will solidify in the pots. Once the rings are gummed excess veg oil can get past the rings and into the sump oil where it will mix with the mineral oil and a chemical reaction begins that can turn the entire contents of the sump to jelly over night with the inevitable resultant seized engine.

The Tdi engine is not a good engine to run on veg oil but it is possible, just, if you twin tank it and start and finish on diesel and don't allow it to idle for too long when running on veg oil even in a 10% mix.

Have a look at this forum http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php . If you put 300tdi in the search facility there is a lot about safely converting a Land Rover to run on veg oil.

If you don't believe me about the damage that can be done, I've been there and done that with a Mercedes E300TD that got gummed rings, this being an indirect injection engine with Bosch injector pump that is supposed to be the best engine to run on 100% veg oil.

DON'T RUN IT ANYMORE WITH VEG OIL UNTIL YOU HAVE MADE MODIFICATIONS OR IT WILL BE BYE BYE LANDY!!!

BUNKAM! just add 10% unleaded!,and dont be greedy with the % you put in. Done 10k in mine now anything from 30-50% Why are you using it if your in Africa, Obviously not in the bush!

[Musher]

Do you buy a lottery ticket and expect to win each week Yostumpy? The odds of your engine dying are much, much, much stronger than winning the lottery if you don't twin tank.

Lurk around in this forum http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php and find out the right way to do it rather than the "my dad smoked 80 fags a day & it never did him any harm" way.

[yostumpy]

Do you buy a lottery ticket and expect to win each week Yostumpy? The odds of your engine dying are much, much, much stronger than winning the lottery if you don't twin tank.

Lurk around in this forum http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php and find out the right way to do it rather than the "my dad smoked 80 fags a day & it never did him any harm" way.

NEVER bought a lottery ticket in my life, and yes my dad did smoke heavily all his life, and no it wasn't that that killed him!! I dont use wvo, and I only use rapeseed oil, that doesn't gum the rings or sludge up the oil. As I say 13 months and 10,000 miles and no probs, dont forget I add 10% unleaded to my svo, doubtless you'll say i'm courting disaster there as well. I KNOW!!!!!! Tommorrow I'll stay in bed all day, just in case something Bad happens to me! Yo (very scared)stumpy!:eek:

[Musher]

As I said earlier I managed to gum rings on an IDI engine, this was after 15,000 using new rapeseed oil not WVO and twin tanked. Read the articles in the forum I've linked to above to understand what goes on in a Tdi engine.

Adding petrol thins the oil but also reduces power by lowering the cetane rating, if you are running a diesel mix anyway the petrol is doing nothing except decreasing MPG. Viscosity of oil is a problem in early Land Rovers with CAV injector pumps but not with the later Bosch ones so a heat exchanger and adding petrol isn't as important as twin tanking to ensure the engine is starting and finishing on pure diesel.

Land Rovers are not the best engines in the world to convert to Veg oil because of their design and because they just don't run hot enough to burn the veg oil cleanly.

[yostumpy]

funny how Most people having problems are the ones twin tanking, Us blenders seem fine. Pouring 15 lts of svo out of a jerry can is sooo slow, but add 10% and its fine. stumpy!

[Snagger]

Straggler, eventually you will kill the engine. The Tdi is a direct injection engine and is doing exactly that, injecting directly into the cylinder not into a pre-combustion chamber as in an indirect injection engine. When the engine is cold the veg oil is being sprayed directly into a cool cylinder and will not combust fully, a residue will form in the pot which gums up the rings reducing compression ( even in tropical climates). Similarly when you switch off any remaining veg oil will solidify in the pots. Once the rings are gummed excess veg oil can get past the rings and into the sump oil where it will mix with the mineral oil and a chemical reaction begins that can turn the entire contents of the sump to jelly over night with the inevitable resultant seized engine.

The Tdi engine is not a good engine to run on veg oil but it is possible, just, if you twin tank it and start and finish on diesel and don't allow it to idle for too long when running on veg oil even in a 10% mix.

Have a look at this forum http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php . If you put 300tdi in the search facility there is a lot about safely converting a Land Rover to run on veg oil.

If you don't believe me about the damage that can be done, I've been there and done that with a Mercedes E300TD that got gummed rings, this being an indirect injection engine with Bosch injector pump that is supposed to be the best engine to run on 100% veg oil.

DON'T RUN IT ANYMORE WITH VEG OIL UNTIL YOU HAVE MADE MODIFICATIONS OR IT WILL BE BYE BYE LANDY!!!Seconded. I ran a 12J with no trouble at all (indirect injection), but when I transplanted my newly rebuilt Tdi engine to the vehicle, it gimmed the rings and piston sides within a few hundred miles, needing the pistons removing and re-ringing. Much longer and the bores may have been damaged. the giveaway was its heavy breathing, which is a common first symptom of gumming, especially for vehicles run on soya or palm oil (I used sunflower oil, which is supposed to be OK). It transpired that my multi-tank system wasn't fully purging the SVO from the injection system before shutting down, so the engine would be running on an SVO/diesel mix on start up. I think you could very quickly run into problems with an unalterd vehicle on SVO.

[yostumpy]

But, you see, its all about not being too greedy. If you blend, say 30%-50%, you are making a significant saving, both financially and environmentally(but lets not open that can of worms eh!), but If you twin tank, preheated or not, youre expecting to run on 100%. Its the 100% bingo number that seems to be the 'little person in the woodpile':rolleyes: So Dont be greedy, if you twin tank put say 30% dino in the veg tank, but then you might as well blend. Now I'm not really a cautious bloke, But I wouldn't spend all that money to set up a twin tank system, and then constantly worry and fettle with it. I wouldnt run 100% anyway!! If I'd just rebuilt an engine I wouldn't put ANYTHING in it other than good dino, for a good few ,000 miles, certainly not 100% veg. When running in a new engine you have to be easy on it, (not to easy otherwise you'll glaze the bores) but when on veg it has a little more GO so appreciates a brief splat on the loud one. My blending saves me only £3.00 every 1/2 tankful. Pah!!!!!! you say, but thats £6.0 per tank=400 miles. which on say 10,000milespa= 25tanksx£6.0= avg £150 pa saving, and thats on £1.00 ltr for dino and 79ppl svo. Imagine when dino was £1.30 ltr!! NOT massive but its a lot of pints of Guiness for me and swambo! :D

[JayHoe]

which on say 10,000milespa= 25tanksx£6.0= avg £150 pa saving

I wouldn't risk a good engine for that saving over a year.

[buzz]

Should be ok up to 80% Straggler, provided you filter it down to about 2 microns, where it should be bright and clear.
It may be worthwhile running it up to 50c to drive off any residual water before using.
Mike

You need to bring it up to at least 100 degrees Centigrade to boil/evaporate the water.

[buzz]

Hi all,

I'm currently filtering used cooking oil with filters from a coffee machine. I allow it to settle for a few weeks and drain off the glycerine (or is it glycerol?) and use it at a max 10% in a 1994 Defender TDI. I rely on the fuel filter to pick up any stray bits of crap.

I live in Africa and the temperature is pretty much always 25C + so I'm guessing the thickness of the oil won't be a problem.

So my question is whether what I'm doing is ok?! I realise it's not the most scientific method but getting all the weird and wonderful chemical stuff to do it by the book isn't possible here.

Thanks,

Rich


Are you using 10% vegetable oil with 90% Diesel.
I don't see any problem at all....the other way around I would foresee a problem.
I had a problem with my 300 tdi running on 100% biodiesel. It eventually ruined my bosch pump's main oil seal and I had to overhaul the injector pump.
Too much Vegetable oil, I think is not the way to go. Anything over 50% Vegetable oil or its derivatives is to expect something going wrong.
I know from what I have read that vegetable oil does tend to cause gumming.
The two tank method may be more favourable as long as has been previously mentioned, one ensures enough time running on mineral diesel to flush the vegetable oil completely out of the system, to start again on Diesel and switching to Vegetable oil. Basically the engine should be stationary with diesel NOT vegetable oil in the fuel system.