Sport Tyres - again!!1

[hyweln]

I have a 54 plate Freelander Sport - which is mostly used for towing our Coachman caravan. I'm not a boy racer; don't do handbrake turns, wheelies nor spins and the car tows like a dream.

I wasn't too enamoured with the mileage I got out of the previous Continental 4x4 sport which came as standard fit, (they did about 15000) so on the 24th of October last year I invested in four brand new Michelin MXM at a total price of £640. Today being the 26th - almost exactly one year on I have to replace the two front tyres as they're down to the legal limit.

So what, you might say - wear and tear I hear you comment .... after only 7241 miles!!!! Spoke to Kwik Fit where I bought them and they tried to sell me two more of the same with little sympathy - offered to send them back to Michelin for testing. (£180 apiece they would like for the new ones and 'might it be the way you drive, sir?')

I've been quoted Falkens at £100 each by a centre in Swansea and I'm quite sure someone else on this forum has said they've been quite happy with them.

Any ideas as to why the tyres wear so quickly - could it be the towing ? My rear tyres both have 7mm tread remaining - and they were fitted at the same time.

[jello]

:cool:Hi Hyweln

I currently run on Pirelli Scorpion ATR and I get round 55k miles on them and The Scorpion ATR carries a 50,000 mile limited tread wear warranty. I have been told thet Michelins have a softer compound than most tires....if this is true or not I dont know.

Remember if you do change the tyres put the new ones on the back as stated in the handbook. Failure to do so will cause damage to the drive train.

Hope this helps

Dean

[brooklynodog]

I tow a `van and it doesnt adversely affect tyre wear. The only thing I can think is wether you have the van loaded OK? If the nose weight was too low, might that cause the van to slightly lift the back of the car putting more friction on the front tyres? Just a thought.

[Andrex]

How are the front tyres worn? Is it evenly across the whole tread or just the edges - could be the tracking is out. My 04 freelander is still on its original tyres at 41k, and has about 3-4mm tread left, with no more than about 1mm difference between any two tyres and the tread worn evenly all the way across the tyre. I would expect at least 50-55k from them before replacement is required.

[hyweln]

Thanks for your considerate replies - the thought on caravan noseweight is interesting - mine is probably too nose heavy - the Coachman Pastiche 520/4 is a hefty trailer! Might this have the effect of raising the nose of the Freelander so that the tyres don't have the necessary contact with the road. They have worn, however, evenly - albeit before their time ! I'm tempted to put Falkens on the rear and the rear Michelins on the front and pay more attention to the noseweight and balance of the caravan. I've been quoted £100 apiece for the Falkens .... needless to say I'd get the tracking and steering hardware checked in the process. :o I wish I could have a decent fraction of the mileage some of you guys get out of your tyres !!

[Andrex]

Loading would only effect tyre wear very slightly, particularly if the tyre pressures are correct. There certainly would not be such a big difference front and rear because of it. It may be worth looking for other causes - I hardly dare say it but could the Viscous coupling in the four wheel drive system be seized? This would cause extra tyre wear, and if the rear tyres are generally loaded more than the fronts, it may be the front tyres forced to constantly slip. This also puts considerable strain on the transmission.

[hyweln]

An interesting one - if this is the case, shouldn't it have been picked up at last month's £300+ service at one of LR's main dealers in mid Wales. How can it be checked - I'm open to all suggestions (except torching it - ':eek: cause I like the machine)

[hyweln]

"Freelander: Viscous coupling problems. This unit apportions power between front and rear wheels … mounted in the middle of the rear propshaft, when faulty it may result in unusual rear tyre wear or IRD failure." quoted from



http://www.landrover-land-rover-spares-spare-parts-servicing-london.co.uk/land-rover-servicing-repairs.html

[jaffo4011]

i replaced all four contis on my sport td4 with four accelerra tyres to the same 18'' size.they were approx £70 fitted.they cope very well with wet and dry conditions and are wearing very well.....recommended for those on a budget or just want a good all round tyre.:)

incidentally i tow a bailey discovery 200 and have done for the past 3 years with no abnormal wear on the tyres

[hyweln]

Seriously looks like it could be the viscous coupling at fault - I'm off to France (we have another vehicle) for a week on Thursday next - if I can't get it looked at before then , I certainly will after coming back. In the meantime the Freelander stands idle ... I've seen replacement parts on ebay which amount to considerably less than the amount quoted by the main dealers. if anyone's done a repair of the coupling and replaced the bearings I'd be glad of the advice

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-VISCOUS-COUPLING-DAMPER-KIT_W0QQitemZ110451529397QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item19b76c96b5 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-VISCOUS-COUPLING-DAMPER-KIT_W0QQitemZ110451529397QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item19b76c96b5)
and

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-VISCOUS-COUPLING-CENTRE-BEARINGS_W0QQitemZ110451529375QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item19b76c96 9f (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-VISCOUS-COUPLING-CENTRE-BEARINGS_W0QQitemZ110451529375QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item19b76c96 9f)

[Andrex]

Thats just the damper that goes around the outside, not the VCU itself.

This is the complete coupling and damper:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LANDROVER-FREELANDER-VISCOUS-COUPLING-TOR000010_W0QQitemZ280259827678QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4140c99 7de

[Chaser]

Seriously looks like it could be the viscous coupling at fault - I'm off to France (we have another vehicle) for a week on Thursday next - if I can't get it looked at before then , I certainly will after coming back. In the meantime the Freelander stands idle ... I've seen replacement parts on ebay which amount to considerably less than the amount quoted by the main dealers. if anyone's done a repair of the coupling and replaced the bearings I'd be glad of the advice

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-VISCOUS-COUPLING-DAMPER-KIT_W0QQitemZ110451529397QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item19b76c96b5 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-VISCOUS-COUPLING-DAMPER-KIT_W0QQitemZ110451529397QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item19b76c96b5)
and

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-VISCOUS-COUPLING-CENTRE-BEARINGS_W0QQitemZ110451529375QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item19b76c96 9f (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-VISCOUS-COUPLING-CENTRE-BEARINGS_W0QQitemZ110451529375QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item19b76c96 9f)


Based on what you have said I don't see the VC being at fault here. When the VC is tight you get quite pronounced symptoms non of which you mention. Provided the front and rear tyres have worn evenly then it's more likely to be tyre choice rather than a mechanical reason for the rapid wear.

[hyweln]

Greetings from a dark and very wet West Wales - I'll take some photos tomorrow of the front and rear tyres and post them here - perhaps you'd be good enough to give me further opinion then ...

[hyweln]

The rain eased off so I thought I'd go out and take some photos. These are the front tyres - two from front on. They're worn on the outside more than the rest of the tread, but both are bordering illegal.. Could it be the tracking? When I last used it there was a suspicious clicking, rattling noise which appeared to come from under the driver's side - I thought I had some loose material in the door glovebox. It wasn't there all the time.

I shan't bother you any more after this posting - I just need to get it fixed - tyres are too damn expensive to shred and replacing parts which might not be at fault is certainly not a recommendation as to how to make your first million !!! (unless you're fitting them)

[Andrex]

Based on what you have said I don't see the VC being at fault here. When the VC is tight you get quite pronounced symptoms non of which you mention. Provided the front and rear tyres have worn evenly then it's more likely to be tyre choice rather than a mechanical reason for the rapid wear.

It is possible that it is not the VCU, as you say there are usually other symptoms like vibration and tyre scrub on sharp turns, but I do not think tyre choice is in the equation - all four tyres were replaced at the same time, with a reputable make so 7,000 odd miles ago everything was identical, Now the fronts are at the legal limit and the rears are at 7mm. Comparing to my own Freelander, which has over 42,000 miles on its original identical tyres, and there is barely more than about 1mm difference in wear - all have 3 or 4mm left. Therefore something is causing abnormal wear to the front, whilst the rears appear to have something near normal wear.

[Andrex]

Just looking at the pics - getting the tracking done will help, but whether it is all down to that I couldn't say.

[Chaser]

Very difficult to tell much from the photos, could have done with seeing the rears as well.

Can't understand why the vast difference in your and andrex's experience of wear, are you certain that you have identical tyres?

The wear pattern of your fronts actually isn't that unusual, cornering can account for some increased wear on the outside edge. If you hadn't already stated the contrary I would have said you rush about more than most.

It's a very uncommon failure but it is worth checking if there is in fact any drive to the rear. Jack up one rear wheel and see if you can turn it.

[hyweln]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply to my post. You're right, Chaser it would seem that I should be an out and outspeed merchant with front tyres like that. They were replaced as a set of four 12 months ago at a local Kwik Fit (they really don't want to know) I'm away for the next week and will get the Freelander looked at when I get home. In the meantime I've attached photos of the rear two - who have 7mm left on them, thankfully. When I get a diagnosis on my return, I'll post it for all to see. Thanks, anyway. H

[Chaser]

Again they don't indicate that the VCU is tight/seized, they have worn evenly and appear smooth.

(thinking out loud)
I'll wait and see what you find when you try to turn that single rear wheel. Just thinking the only explanation is that it's front wheel drive only if the VCU has failed 'free'. Would have thought you have enough driving experience to feel the difference though, especially towing. :)

[hyweln]

Thanks Chaser - the animal's not been the same recently, I must confess. We rally quite a bit with the caravan which takes us into some mucky fields etc - the Freelander's never failed me .... if the VCU is truly knackered is it possible that the front wheels are just pushed - i.e the rear drives without the front wheeels being engaged in the driving process ... leaving at 6.30 a.m tomorrow for foreign fields. I really appreciate your input as well as everyone else's.

We also posess a rather nice Peugeot 407 estate (which is behaving itself) and the ride difference, etc compared to the Sport tends to colour how you feel for the car through you backside (if you know what I mean). Having saifd that, when it snows, is very wet or need to tow the Pug doesn't get a look in - horses for courses.


H - Hywel

[Llanigraham]

Prynhawn Da, Hywel.

If the VCU was seized then you would be getting lots of problems and noises, as the drive would be equally shared betwen the 2 axles. It is not possible for there to be no drive to the front.

The wear pattern on those tyres looks like a tracking fault. I find I need to get mine checked every 6 months, but I do take mine off-road quite a lot! I have never found Michelin road tyres to be that hard wearing, but did have a set of their All Terrains, which did seem better.

It does appear that the Sport wears tyres quicker than the other models, and I wonder whether this is to do with the way the suspension has been reset, to allow for it's more "spirited" driving style.

And if you think your mileage is poor, I was looking at another car forum recently and someone was complaining he could only get 5k miles out of the front tyres of his Golf Vrs!!! And at over £150 each!!!

[Chaser]

Thanks Chaser - the animal's not been the same recently, I must confess. We rally quite a bit with the caravan which takes us into some mucky fields etc - the Freelander's never failed me .... if the VCU is truly knackered is it possible that the front wheels are just pushed - i.e the rear drives without the front wheeels being engaged in the driving process ... leaving at 6.30 a.m tomorrow for foreign fields. I really appreciate your input as well as everyone else's.

We also posess a rather nice Peugeot 407 estate (which is behaving itself) and the ride difference, etc compared to the Sport tends to colour how you feel for the car through you backside (if you know what I mean). Having saifd that, when it snows, is very wet or need to tow the Pug doesn't get a look in - horses for courses.


H - Hywel

Normally the VCU goes tighter with age which prevents it from alleviating transmission wind up resulting in unusual rear tyre wear and juddering in tight turns. Although I haven't seen it happen I have heard that the odd one can fail internally so no drive is transmitted to the rear. It's very unlikely but it might explain the rapid front tyre wear if you only had front wheel drive.
I'm pretty certain you would notice on those slippery fields pulling the van.

[hyweln]

Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi'ch dau - many thanks to you both - as I said, I'll hopefully get it sorted when I get back next week and will certainly post the results on this forum.

[hyweln]

Ok - as promised, an update - finally managed to get a few hours to take the beast into the doctor's for a diagnosis - one of my local mechanics is a landrover enthusiast and, at one time worked at a main dealers. Replaced the two errant tyres with the accelera tyres that jaffo4011 suggested. they panned out at 70 squids apiece and now reside on the rear axle. The mechs took a serious look at the underside and apart from an exhaust box which is progressively rusting, could find no symptoms of drive problems - I know, cause I was there !! HOWEVER .... my tracking was seriously awry - heaven knows how I'd managed to c**k that one up. Along with a replacement for a driver's side track rod and a further tweaking on the tracking machine, all seems well with the animal at the moment. We'll keep a close look on any development - in the meantime thank you all for your time and advice .. much appreciated...Hywel
:cargos:

[Llanigraham]

Glad you got an answer Hywel.

[Andrex]

I have a strong feeling you will find it cured! At least it is not an expensive fix!

[freelanderauto]

i have sport wheels on my freelander and my friend has them too. we have found that the front tyres wear out before the rears anyway. he has continental and i have vredestein, both wear about the same. rears last twice the amount the fronts do. my local land rover said that the freelander generally does wear the front tyres out quicker due to how the 4x4 system works.