Snagger's 109 Rebuild

[Snagger]

As promised here are a couple of initial photos of what I've been up to. The first shows the vehicle before I stripped it down and the others show a couple of stages of the strip.

[Snagger]

And here's the chassis after delivery, and again after painting with Schutz. The rear cross member was etched and sprayed matt black.

The TIC parabolics and axles are already fitted. The rear has only been fitted for 2 years from new, and the front was rebuilt 2 years ago. Both have also been cleaned back, painted and Schutzed. The springs and ES9000 dampers have been waxoiled, and anodised QT diff guards fitted.

I rebuilt the gearbox and transfer box last summer, and these have been dropped in to clear a little more space in the garage. The rebuilt overdrive wil be refitted later.

[RPGreg2600]

Are you gonna get rid of the silly defender front end?

[Snagger]

The front end was from a Stage 1 V8, and was used when the (short lived) 2.5TD was fitted - I was new to LRs at the time, and the LR "specialists" that fitted it installed an oil cooler up front, saying they needed the space from a V8 bonnet. Now I know more, and that obviously wasn't the case. As I had already fitted the wheel arches to stop mud being thrown up by the more offset wheels, damaging the then recent respray, the appearance seems to tie in. I quite like Defenders aswell, so it'll stay; I can't afford to replace the entire body to go back to standard spec, and I wouldn't want to anwyway.

[challisc]

Does look good. The wheel arches look a bit 'wide' but hey its a craking motor.

also out of intrest why did you decide to do a rebuild?

i am old anorak when it come to front ends.

keep up the good work!

[Snagger]

I went for the rebuild as I had already replaced the 6 outriggers, rear cross member and front dumbirons. With a few bad spots in the main rails, I decided there was no point in going round in circles plating it - I want to keep the vehicle permanently, so a new galv chassis was the only sane choice. The same applied to the bulkhead; though repairable, a better and longer lasting solution was to replace it with a new galvanised unit. If you're going to all that effort, especially having done the mechanicals recently already, it makes sense to go the whole way and get a result better than that which rolled out of LOde Lane, in both spec and quality.

Anyway, here are some more pics. Anyone think that photos of rebuilds are a bit like LR porn?

The first, obviously, shows the galv bulkhead before prep and painting. The next shows it after painting, fitted on the new chassis. This pic is of the completed gearbox, efitted to make room in the garage for other bits. I now have a rolling chassis, with the refurbished rear 18gal tank and rear wiring loom fitted. The drop plate, tow ball, twin rear step and towing electrices (PTO hole) were fitted before the tank, as it's a bit tight against the rear cross-member. It was a bit wet the on day that the pics were taken.

[Snagger]

Here's another pic of the rear end, with the refubished tank, refitted prop and brake hose visible. The prop has also be Schutzed.

Masking tape was used for marking out the lwer bolt hole position for the heater housing (TD5 Defender unit). The top bolts are the same as those on the SIII housing, so these held the housing in place while the lower holes were marked. The unit was then remover and the holes drilled. Sound deadening material from Noise Killer was then fitted over the entire footwell, upto the recessed horizontal box section above the heater housing. It doesn't look as pretty as the shiny black paint, but with the sound blanket fitted on all the bulkead area below the bonnet, it should make a significant difference to the noise in the cab.

[Snagger]

I'm currently working on the steering box. It seemed OK except for a recent leak from the rocker shaft seal. I had considered refilling it with 1-shot grease, but decided to strip it instead.

The rocker shaft shows significant wear on the fork (the new replacement is next to it for comparison). It was slightly ovalised wher it sits in the bush, and slightly rusted where it contacts the o-ring, hence the leak. I bought new bearings throughout, but will use the originals as thes appear unworn, and the replacements were only available from a pattern part supplier, whose products I have had unfavourable experiences with.

The rocker shaft, rocker bush and column top bearing have all been replaced with Gen Parts (the bush with great difficulty). It's a sod to get the old bush out, and ressing in the new one isn't easy either. It then needs reaming. I don't have a reamer, so I used the old rocker shaft to do this (the tapered splines on its end work fairly well with enough effort). I'm waiting for a replacement o-ring reataining washer, as the original split when pressing it into the housing.

[challisc]

did you brush paint galvanise the bulkhead? or get it hot diped?

[Snagger]

It was hot dipped. That means better protection, especially in the box sections and door pillars, but it also means re-tapping every thread. Many worry about heat distortion - there was a little, just above the wing top area, but a skim of Isopon has cured that. It also means more pre-paint prep as the surface texture is rougher. You can see this on the tops of the footwells; I aksed the body shop to get only the visible parts perfect as the inside will be hidden by trim and the footwell exteriore covered by sound proofing and heaters, pedal boxes, etc. No point in paying a huge amount for unneccessary work.

Cold zinc application would do fine, so long as you thoroughly waxoil the cavities - bulkheads tend to rot from the inside out, except for areas they prevent painting and trap water, like the vent flap hinges.

[Festerfly]

hey!!

Glad to see the LR is nearing the end of the major assembly stage!

Did you manage to find your Military Fuel tanks you were after?

Funny thing happened as iw aspassing your road yestrday in teh LAnd Rover.. i hit a small pothole in the road and then the steering started shaking voilently like the one of the steering joints had collapsed and one of the front wheels was 'floating'.. Pulled up on the pavement, checked it out, nothing! couldent see a thing.. off i plod again and there is nothing wrong!!!

It must have seen your one in pieces down the road and shivered!! lol :D

Lee

[Snagger]

Thanks, Lee.

Got the tanks and most of the bits for the fuel system now. They need stripping back and re-painting, just like the rear tank was, and I'm waiting on the various mounting fixings. I have the 2 taps, but need a couple more switches and other bits before fitting them. I also need to test the sender units. One of the caps seems a little tight, so there may be a problem with it.

I'm still waiting on the steering box washer too. It's frustrating to have to wait 2 weeks for something so simple, but refiting the rocker shaft o-ring and retaining washer are the second job in reassembly; I can't do anything else until they're in, and the stipped unit is taking up a lot of garage space.

The reassembly is possibly as much a 20% complete, but certainly no more than that. I still need to replace the bent and rotten floor in the tub, rebuild the rear and front left doors (have been re-skinned and painted already), then strip and re-skin the front right. All the boddy has to be stripped and re-painted, the new windows fitted, the pedal boxes rebuilt ( I want them looking factory fresh too), facia and istruments fitted, and the engine completed and fitted. Plenty to keep me going yet.

Still in 2 minds about the engine; the 2.5nad that wa already in it is in really good condition, having had all of its moving parts, bearings and seals replaced a few years ago. The one exception was the rocker shaft - though serviceable, it would benefit from new rockers as the pads are very worn. The other option is to fit the 2.5TD, but that needs a full rebuild, which'll be costly. I may be able to get away with just replacing all the shells and the pistons, with a re-hone, but I won't know until I open it up. The previous owner told me it's done over 100,000miles and uses a bit of oil, but otherwise runs well. Time will tell.

I'm going out now to finish fitting the bulkhead soundproofing. I'll get some pictures of the tanks while I'm at it.

[Snagger]

Just come in from the front garden. The bulkhead noise blanket is now fully fitted, save for the pedal cut-outs. It's a bit fiddly, and making cardboard templates is the only way to do it. It looks a little odd, but should make a huge difference to the noise in the cab. I still have enough material left over to line both inner wings, and the bonnet has a kit aswell as the original lining.


The twin tanks need cleaning up. I got the black on from Chris (Challisc). I think it's a later version; the bottom of it drops slightly, and the sides are straight with inwardly pressed ribs, while the white one has a flet bottom with outward bulging sides and outward pressed ribs. It's a shame they don't match, but once they're painted it won't really matter.

I had promised the old facia to Lee (Festerfly), as I bought a second hand Defender spare in perfect condition (good SIII units are hard to come by). I'd assumed that it'd fit straight in, but the backs are different, so I need to cut the backs out and fit the SIII part int the Def unit. I've included a picture of the radio installation slots, just to the left of the steering column shroud, as a lot of people wonder where to fit their radios (it's just another option, though I wouldn't put it there myself). The picture is of the Def facia, but the SIII unit has identical slots (they were overpainted a while back, so don't stand out as much as on the new facia).

[Snagger]

I got home this evening to recieve my birthday present from my wife (a little early, but it's to big to hide) - an EvansUK bulkhead removal bar. It should increas the rear leg room a little and vastly improve access from front to rear and heating circulation. It'll look better than a dented bulkhead too!

[challisc]

lucky for some! I had a full exaust system and a raditor on my list, didnt get either! Looks like you will be finished before me!!! Hope the tank was ok!

[A C H]

Nice job so far Snagger.

[GS1000S MAN]

Hello Snagger,
Nice job on your landy. Looking really good. Your gearbox looks nice and clean, mine looked like that once. But after 2 years of overspray, it's starting to look a bit grim again. I decided not to bother cleaning it again till it's moveable and so that I can take it out of the garage, each time I spray something.
I would say, race you to the finish, but I will probably lose :D

Keep up the good work.
Gaz

[callum]

Just come in from the front garden. The bulkhead noise blanket is now fully fitted, save for the pedal cut-outs. It's a bit fiddly, and making cardboard templates is the only way to do it. It looks a little odd, but should make a huge difference to the noise in the cab. I still have enough material left over to line both inner wings, and the bonnet has a kit aswell as the original lining.


The twin tanks need cleaning up. I got the black on from Chris (Challisc). I think it's a later version; the bottom of it drops slightly, and the sides are straight with inwardly pressed ribs, while the white one has a flet bottom with outward bulging sides and outward pressed ribs. It's a shame they don't match, but once they're painted it won't really matter.

I had promised the old facia to Lee (Festerfly), as I bought a second hand Defender spare in perfect condition (good SIII units are hard to come by). I'd assumed that it'd fit straight in, but the backs are different, so I need to cut the backs out and fit the SIII part int the Def unit. I've included a picture of the radio installation slots, just to the left of the steering column shroud, as a lot of people wonder where to fit their radios (it's just another option, though I wouldn't put it there myself). The picture is of the Def facia, but the SIII unit has identical slots (they were overpainted a while back, so don't stand out as much as on the new facia).

can i ask wher your bulkhead insulation came from? was it part of akit or o abig sheet that you cut up to suit.

[Snagger]

Thanks, guys.

The gearbox does look nice like that, though the rain has given some of the nuts a dusting of surface rust. I've covered them in heavy grease to prevent them getting worse. All the other fastners are getting a good greasing as they go in, and a coat of schutz or black waxoil once tightened. I hope I can get that big clamp undone later - it's starting to rust a bit too. It's just stopping the gearbox tipping back and damaging the new mount rubbers. As for not racing me to the finish for fear of losing - now I know you're keeping your sense of humour! At this rate, it'll take me to the end of the year (that's if I re-use the 12J and rebuild the 19J later).

The sound deadening is a blank sheet from Noise Killer; aswell as pre-cut kits, they're happy to supply raw materials too. Their kits do the underside of the bonnet and the vehicle interior. The Series underbonnet kit also includes a pad of the same material for the inner wings, though theyr'e only about 14"x8". The sheet is self adheive and has a heavy leaded back layer, a 5MM light foam layer (open cell, so it's absorbent!) and a heat reflective foil layer on top. The foil has a nylon cross weave in it to reduce ripping, but it,s no thicker or stronger than baking foil. To make it a bit more durable, I think I'll Duck Tape the exposed edges. By the way, that's an amazing bumper youve got in your avatar! Did you buy it or make it up yourself?

[challisc]

how much did you pay? or do you know the price per square m? cheers, i might do the engine bay and transmission tunnel on mine. also does it fix with a simple 'glue'.

Cheers

[Snagger]

As I recall, I paid a little under £100 for the under-bonnet kit (bonnet and inner wing pads) and an uncut sheet, approx 3'x4', which is enough to do the entire bulkhead both front doors or the seat box top (including the 3 inspection panels).

I plan to use camping roll mat under the carpets in the rear. It's not as effective,but then it doesn't need to do much back there, and it's very cheap, tough and totally wateproof.

[Snagger]

I managed to collect the steering box washer on the way home this afternoon, so I have finally managed to re-assemble the steering column and box. The top bearing in the column is simple to replace, once the column is separated from the box. Stripping and re-assembling is pretty straight forward. The hardest job is replacing the rocker shaft bush, so don't, unless it's significantly worn. I replaced it out of thoroughness, and should just have left it in there and replaced the shaft alone. The other gotcha is the main nut's donut when refitting the cover-plate; you have to use a thin blade to align the donut with its track while pushing the plate down its dowels, or the donut will lodge against the thick part of the plate and hold it off.


I'll put it onto the vehicle as soon as I can. One down, several hundred more jobs to go.

[Snagger]

The steering box and column are now fitted, so that's a little more space in the garage. I also taped down the edges of the sound proofing with duck tape to prevent tearing or fraying. The new washer jets are in too, having had to remove the Defender jets I bought. I wanted double sprays per pane, and the Defender nozles fit in exactly the same way, but not thinking the issue through properly, I only realized the top end of the nozzle units would foul the wiper arms after fitting them. It could have been worse; I could have failed to notice until atttching the wipers on compleeting the rebuild!

I didn't do an awful lot today. I won't be able to get much done tomorrow either, but I would like to get the steel panel that extends beneath the top facia stripped back and repainted so that I can start refitting the dash. I also need to modify the back of the lower facia to fit the SIII bulkhead (as per the pics a few posts back). Monday or Tuesday I'll get my brake lines flared (I've made them up, but don't have a flaring tool). I think I'll leave those as my target as they should be attainable.

I picked up the replacement front prop (standard prop is too short with 1-ton suspension). Guess what: didpite bearing the 1-ton part number, it's standard length (about 5" too short). Thanks again, Britpart.

[challisc]

Sounds like you need a six cly propshaft, what lenth are you after? Ive got a few Props lying around.

[Snagger]

Thanks Chris. I'll get this one checked first; I think it's been mislabled at manufacture. Being brand new, I'm not going to accept it if it doesn't work.

The 1-ton has a different length front prop than the standard vehicle (5 types of original front prop are available: 88/109 4cyl; 109 6cyl; 109 1-ton 4cyl; 109 1-ton 6cyl; V8). The part number on the packaging is correct, but the prop seems even shorter at full stretch than my original unit. I suspect that it may even be an 88" rear.

[alex]

Snagger
Enjoyed seeing your work in progress-don`t know about you but I regret putting black waxoil on everything. Just wanted to ask about steering on my series 111 as you have had all the bits in your hands.When I grab the wheel there is play up and down toward the windscreen. Where is the bush that is worn-I have parts book
Thanks in advance
Alex

[Snagger]

Alex,

If the steering wheel is moving linearly, first check the wheel nut is holding the wheel tightly on the shaft splines. If that's OK, next look for movement of the column in relation to the bulkhead - the steering box should be tightly fitted to the support bracket , which in turn should be steadfast against chassis and bulkhead. The upper column support (where the column enters the bulkhead) should also be checked for security. If the column and box are secure, but the movement persists, you have a problem with the steering shaft bearings. These consist of 10 ball bearings sitting in a circular race against each end of the shaft's worm gear. The races are visible in the pictures above, and are retained by the bottom plate and column neck respectively. You may have had a bearing failure or worn bearings. These can be replaced with a box strip down. Endfloat on the shaft is set by adding or removing shims between the casing and the lower race retaining plate.


On a second reading of your post, I think you're talking about a vertical motion on the wheel, rather than an in-out motion I first understood. If this is the case, first check the column's to support bracket on the front of the bulkhead. If that's OK, you need to replace the column top bearing. Remove the steering wheel, column trim, indicator stalk and steering lock. Next, undo the pinch bolt securing the bottom of the column in its neck (steering box end). Unclamp the top bracket near the bulhead, and you should be able to slide the column up into the cab without disturbing the main part of the box. Try not to loose the locating peg from the column (sits on a small hole in the column, inside the slot of the neck). Use a broom handle as a drift to knock the old bearing out the top, and fit a new GENUINE bearing (I had a terrible pattern part which went straight in the bin). In Hayne's finest tradition, reassmbley is the reverse of removal.

I got your e-mail. I'll get some picture of the seat belt brackets ASAP. Dimensions an (poor) descriptions returned by e-mail.

As for regretting waxoil, it doesn't look so pretty when you cover up those shiny nuts and bolts, dampers, springs, etc, but if it saves me having to do it again, or having to cut the fixings to remove anything in the future, I'll have no regrets at all!

[Snagger]

Here's a photo of the seat belt brackets. They'e both annodised, but the coating isn't really enough for the exterior half (hence the new one). Fitted, the left hand side of the picture would be uppermost. You can see that the bottom bracket (door sill/seatbase corner) is the same shape as on a Series belt, but has a slot with the belt secured integrally, as opposed to a bolt-on belt like the SIII. All the bolt holes line up - the only work needed is to drill the 2 holes in the front ledge of the tub, behind the seatbase, for the studs of the lower reel bracket to pass through.

The parts are listed for the SIII County:

Brackets (as per photos) MRC8524 (x2) and MTC4090 (x2) (you'll also need nuts and washers: 4x NH108041L, WL108001L and WC108051L
Belts (complete with corner bracket and shoulder loop) MTC1606 (RHS) and MTC1607 (LHS). The diagram suggests this also incldes the buckle stalks.

[Snagger]

I've just put the phone down after making a £170 order from Turner Engineering. To keep costs under control, I have decided to refit the 12J engine. The 19J (TD) will be assessed and hopefuly rebuilt and fitted in a couple of years, while the 12J will go into a future 88" project for my wife.

The 12J was rebuilt a few years ago and is in good condition. It's getting a new rocker shaft, complete with 8 new rocker arms, as the old pads were very worn, and a couple of core plugs. These were the only jobs not done during the engine rebuild - it had every pump, seal and bearing replaced, along with a rebore, 4 new pistons, a new crank shaft, 8 new tapet sets and a head rebuild.

Sorting out these bits, plus a precautionary new rear crank seal, will only take a short while before refitting the engine, which will feel like a real mile-stone (and free up a lot more space). I'll get some pictures as the work starts.

I've also ordered a few bits from Craddocks in order to start work on the rear tub - I can't complete the bulkhead until the tub is complete as the body alignment is all based around the tub.

[alex]

Snagger - Thanks for your lucid and detailed reply. That Landy will be a real beauty when finished.
Cheers Alex

[challisc]

I can't complete the bulkhead until the tub is complete as the body alignment is all based around the tub.

got the same problem as me there. Just finding the time at the moment is difficult!

[Snagger]

Got a great haul for my birthday today: aswell as the Evans bulkheadremoval bar I already mentioned, I got some wing mirror heaters fromScorpion Racing; seat heating from Exmoor Trim; a great T-shirtwith a90being dropped from a Herc, a leather key ring and logoed ID lanyard(for work) from Land Rover Gear; and some great Land Rover drawingsfrom my 4 year old boy. My wife made up an excellent card too - newavatar coming soon!

I managed to install all the brake lines, the facia top panels, ventcontrols and accelerator pedal. I've stripped, cleaned and refurbishedthe pedal boxes and brake servo, so they'll be going back onas soon asIget the chance, along with the instrument panel and wiring loom.

My parts from Craddocks have arrived, so I can start on the rar tubsoon too. I'll be a bit busy next week, so it'll be at least a weekbefore I can get any pics - sorry!

[Snagger]

Sorry it's been so long since the last update; too much work and a quick trip to Centre Parks!

Here are a few pictures of the new brake lines. They're copper-nickel with brass fittings, so should resist corrosion well. They'll get a coat of waxoil, just to be sure, once they have been leak-tested. I still need to make up the lines from the master cylinder to the failure valve, but they should be pretty easy compared to that rear line.

[Snagger]

I have also refurbished the pedal boxes. The brake pedal unit got a new servo and master cylinder, the pedal and box being stripped, cleaned and zinc-primed prior to painting. The moving parts were all inspected and greased.

The clutch unit was stripped down and given the same treatment, but the master cylinder was replaced only a few years ago and is in excelent condition for re-use.

Before re-fitting either pedal box, I want to fit the instrument panel and wiring loom (access to the loom passage hole in the bulkhead is restricted by the pedal boxes). This is the loom and panel before cleaning it up. All the added circuits will be pared away to strip the loom down to its original spec before re-fitting. Ancilliary electrical systems will be added afterward with a separate fuse box and relays.

[Snagger]

No pics for the next few days - I have just finished sorting a fewminor glitches on the Cavalier that I bought yesterday as a stand-infor the 109, and I need to fit new damper bushes on the rear of theClassic and re-time its Tdi.

After that, it'll be back to that wiring loom. It's cleaning upwell and seem s just to need the accessories removing and a fewterminals replacing.

What do you think of the avatar? My wife made it as the front ofmy birthday card. Look carefully and you can see the big mandriving the thing too!

[RPGreg2600]

Oooh, shiney :)

[Snagger]

Is that "shiny" as in literally, or as in Firefly's kind of shiny?

The rain repellant may work on the iside of your screen. It willneed occasional re-application, but seems to make some difference.

[RPGreg2600]

All your parts are shiney is what I meant.

[Snagger]

It does make it easier, being able to get just about any part new. Still costs though...

[Snagger]

I should be able to get a little done over the next couple ofdays. Good result on the RR Classic today; I had a veryirritating knock at the rear every time the vehicle rockedslightly. Stripping the suspension revealed nothing, but AllunWilliams at Rogers (top bloke) managed to find and fix the cause - theinternal spacer in the left chassis main rail was clicking as thechassis flexed slightly. The spacer is not structural, it justkeeps the 2 sides of the rail at the correct distance duringwelding. It needs a waxoiling underneath, but that's not as easyon a RR as it is on a SIII due to the lower ground clearance, so it'llgo in to Rogers for that.

[Snagger]

The job is now being held up by the speedo, which needsrecalibrating. It was previously under-reading by about 10%, butwhilst taking it apart to clean the slightly moldy face and reset theodometer, the needle came off!

I can't reassemble the instument panel, and thus fit the wiring loom,until I know the speedo is indicating correctly. If anyone in theBedford area would volunteer an hour of their time, for reward, I'll beable to get back on track. Please have a look at my MULE NEEDEDthread on the Series forum.

The Range Rover has gotten jealous again. I've had minordifficulties engaging 2nd for about 6 months (crunching if changed tooquickly), but 4th is stating to become tricky, a shimmy noise isproduced when the clutch pedal is depressed, there is a loud rattle atlow rpm and 4th tends to make a noise similar to tyre noise. I'mhoping it's all clutch related, as I could do without replacing theR380 on that while I have the 109 project racking up bills!

[alex]

Snagger
Did you have a 2.25d id that series of yours. Is that the old exhaust manifold off it? Was just going to ask you of the real difference if any between the two engines. I know there is 6hp. in it and the 12j has a different injector pump also stronger built in some areas eg. crankshaft. A big difference is the fact it has a brake servo pump.This I feel is the weak point of my 2.25d. The butterfly in the manifold causes the engine to run rich and smoke. I have an alternator vac from Transit I was going to adapt when I take out engine for top end overhaul along with gearbox and rear main seal. However I have the chance of 12j from a Defender. I could refurb this one at my leisure and fit at a later date. You know what like it is ......decisions! Whats that dear? Yes I know I`m doing two projects at the moment....... no this isn`t a third one I`m just talking with the boys. Women!! Can`t live with them......Can`t live with them.
Alex

[Snagger]

The entire engine is std 12J with 2 exceptions; the fan and the thermostat housing, which were kept SIII in order to fit the SIII rad. I'll be fitting the 12J 4 bladed plastic fan, with the ali space removed, to increase the rad airflow, as it struggles on hot days in 4th so keep cool. This'll be particularly important with the 19J I plan to fit (with a SIII oil cooler infront of the rad, cooling should be improved if I can assure adequate airflow).

Both mainifolds are 12J, but this does require a little modification on the exhaust down pipe to get everything to fit. I understand that a 10J exhaust manifold is a straight swap, allowing for a standard exhaust.

[Snagger]

Sorry about the lack of updates, but I've been sorting out a few glitches on the stand-in (Cavalier) and sibling (RR Classic, who's clutch needed replacement at a fitted price of £450!). The project hasn't stalled; infact, I've just decided on spending more money on sliders. Before I order them, has anyone had any experience with the SIII sliders from Mill Services? They seem fine in principle, but I'd like to know what they're like in practice.

[GS1000S MAN]

You may laugh at me! But whats a slider???
If they look like they could be of some use, then I may get some. :rolleyes:

Not a bad job, fitting a clutch, but you have to be superman to lift the gearbox.

[Snagger]

I had the RR clutch done (labour cost £240), because I didn't have the time or facilities to do it myself. The 109 I'd do myself.

By "sliders" I was refering to rock-sliders or jackable sills. They probably go by a few other names too. There's plenty of choice for 90s, limited for 110s, and seemingly just the one provider for Series vehicles (£90 for 88s, £115 for 109s). Apparently, they attach to brackets bolted on each outrigger with no welding. I'd like to see more than just the pics on the manufacturer's site (www.mill-services.co.uk) before ordering a pair .

[nighthawk]

Hi snagger cool job you did there. I'm thinking of doing the galvanising to my 90 in the summer. Just a little question. Considering working hard at it and with a few friends helping whenever they have time, how long do you estimate it would take to strip down the landy to a bare chassis and what are the most difficult parts?

[Snagger]

How long is a piece of string?

The cost and duration of a rebuild are very dependant on the required standard of the finished vehicle. If you just want to swap a chassis and nothing else, then I'd be suprised if it took more than a couple of weeks for someone of medium ability with the assistance of a few friends and access to the required equipment. If you want everything "just right", then it takes considerably longer, probably between 1 and 3 years, depending upon the depth of your pockets. Personally, I think that changing a chassis is enough of a task to warrant doing everything else too, so you don't have to tear bits off continually afterwards. Of course, that's just my view point, and apparently that of GS2000 too.

A strip down to major sub assemblies (ie. engine, transmission, axles, bulkhead and major bodywork units) should take you and your friends no more than a couple of days if you really set to it, but will take longer if you try to save as many fastners and fixings as possible, and carefully label/annotate/photograph/package parts as they come off to assist on reassembly.

So far, the most difficult thing I have done is replacing the rocker shaft bush in the steering box, but with the correct tools I'm sure this would not have been much of an issue. The wiring loom is daunting, and a 90's would be more so, but carefull labelling of each connector before removal, and separating as little as possible will make refitting easier.

[nighthawk]

Great thanks for the info :)
*takes note to label the connectors* :D

My 90 is pretty new (1995 300tdi). It's had a rebuilt gearbox 1 year ago and i'm rebuilding a spare transfer box at the moment for it too. Won't rebuild the engine as it clearly doesn't need it. I do intend to replace the clutch while I have everything disassembled but apart from that I think it would be more of a swapping job with new "consumables" (bushes, balljoints, mounting rubber etc) all round.

I just live near the sea where the poor chassis got it's overdose of salt spray. I need a chassis that will last more than a couple of years...

[Snagger]

In that case flush out the bulkhead with as much hose water at you can (through the windscreen hinge boltholes, door-hinge boltholes etc), allow to dry and then generously waxoil inside. Have a close look at the chassis - if you only have some surface rust, get it "Before 'n Aftered". Much cheaper and easier than a rebuild, and at 10 yrs your chassis should still be OK unless it's beeen waded a bit.

Make sure you get plenty of waxoil into the doors. I'd also recommend removing the body tub cappings and treating any corrosion on the tub skins before refitting the capping with a good, insulating coat of paint between the parts. Defenders tend to show signs of electrolytic corrosion around the rear capping because they're attched prior to painting, with the steel cappings being in direct contact with the ali sheeting.

[Snagger]

I have still been kept busy with other stuff, mainly work and the kids. The RR has had its clutch done, but seems to have developped a bonnet hinge problem which is causing noise and scuttle-panel distortion. It's going back in to Rogers, taking away more 109 funds and time.

The wiring has all been stripped back to the basic system and repaired. Most of the instruments and switches are re-connected with just the speedo to go. Lee (Festerfly) has offered to help me out with recalibrating it on Saturday, so I should be able to re-assemble and refit the speedo, and then the loom and instruments after that.

I have added an extra 2 position toggle switch to the left of the heater fan switch to control any auxilliary engine cooling fan I fit later. This fan would assist the belt driven fan which will be retained. The top right switch operates the ligths normally, and directly powers the instrument lights, and with side-ligths only selected, the spare terminal powers the rear worklamp (preventing me from driving at night with the worklamp on). The original isntrument light switch now controls the fog lights (those ugly illuminated pull-switches fail far too often). The 2 speed wiper switch and 2 speed fan switch are as normal.

You can see that I have dismantled, cleaned and rebuilt the temp/fuel guage assy. I decided to paint the rim silver as they were well in need of tidying up and will be more in keeping with the chrome plate rimmed Smiths engine auxilliary instruments to be fitted in the centre of the dash. Not quite as pretty as the Croytech stuff for Defenders, but similar.

[Snagger]

I have also bitten the bullet and ordered today a pair of Mill Services rock-sliders. These not only provide a full length jacking point, but should provide ample protection from jerryatric and female drivers in the super-market carpark, preventing their doors from damaging the new paintwork.

They attach (bolted, not welded) to the bulkhead outrigger, front of tub outrigger and rear spring hanger outrigger, and are rated for lifting the vehicle. Mine need to be of custom length to fit between the 110 wheelarches, but this costs no extra. Mill seem very helpful, and reckon I'll get them within 2 weeks (I'll keep you posted). Seems like good value for £115 incl. so far.

I have included pictures of the rear sections of the original sills which show where the jerrycan holder frames fitted. The sills did not need any cutting - just a few holes drilling for the frame bolts. The frames can be seen from both sides in the other picture. The lower lip that overlapped the sill will need to be ground off and the bottom 3/4" (roughly) of the locker doors removed in order to fit above the proud sliders, but there should be no other issues, allowing me to retain full use of the lockers with the sliders fitted.

[Snagger]

Finally some work that I can document!

The jackable sills/rock sliders shouls arrive next week,a nd in order to fit them, the rear tub will have to be in place. It'll only be resting in place while I fit the sills, but before i can use it for aligning the sills (and bulkhead, which still needs alignement before tightening up), I need to do all the repair and alteration work, just to ensure that there are no dimension changes after setting the other parts.

To this end, I need to repair the tub floor, which is a little bent and hase some corrosion holes where the steel braces have reacted with the ali floor. The steel braces are all coming off for treatment, and will be refitted with a generous application of Tiger Seal between them and the floor to prevent further reactions. The floor itself will be straightened up as much as possible before fitting a second 5mm ali sheet on top of the existing, to give a stronger, flatter and hole free floor.

Now, here comes the tricky bit. I currently have a pair of Trakkers' Froward Folding rear seats. Though their quality is fine, they are not very supportive when cornering, and I have doubts over their crash-safety, so I'll be replacing them with another pair of Defender front seats, to match those already fitted up front (all may be re-trimmed with black G4 vinyl if funds permit). In order to have enough space to squeeze between the seats when entering from the rear door, these seats will have to be fitted as far outboard as possible. Of course, this would mean that the front end of the wheel box would impinge on the pasengers ideal foot space.

So, the floor is moving outboard, with mods to the wheel box ahead of the wheel arch apperture. Being me, even this is being complicated by another issue: that space was occupied by the MoD 110 jerrycan lockers. Since I am fitting twin forward tanks, in addition to the already fitted rear tank, concealed stroage for 4 jerrycans is not entirely neccessary, so the lockers are being slimmed down to hold one per side. This meanns a little trimming and welding of the internal frames, as you'll see in the pics on the next post. I have also had to trim off the bottom edge of the apperture frame (where it sat over the std sill) in order for the frame to fit over the jackable sill. The pics of the trial fit show how much the forward end of the load space will be widened.

[Snagger]

The jerrycan locker frames:

[challisc]

youve been busy! keep up the great work!!

[Snagger]

Forgot to include this in today's post; can anyone explain why fuel cans are 6 3/8" wide, water cans 7 1/2 " and the space to fit them in the jerrycan lockers only 13 1/4" (such that you have to jump up and down on the side of the cans to squash them a little to get 2 in, or squash one a lot if it's sharing the space with a plastic water can of even greater width).

Best answer wins a SIII heater and blower assy (not incl postage).

[arrolman]

I don't think the lockers were meant for water cans really,I know we squash them in when we take them on excercise's.

Iain

[Snagger]

I have been pretty busy at work, and dealing with a few jobs around the house, the kids and so on, so haven't had much oportunity to do much on the 109.

I finished removing all traces of rust from the first re-modelled jerrycan frame, and have cut down abd partly cleaned up the second; it just needs to be cleaned up entirely, welded and painted. The first frame has been given 2 coats of zinc primer to keep the rust off. I also need to alter the locker floors to match the new width and to mount them in a way that won't interfere with the sills (the original setup had the rear sill panel sandwiched between the lower edge of the outer frame and down-turned lip of the floor panel, all of which had 3 transverse bolts to keep evrything in position. I'm planning on some kind of twin parallel hoop arrangement that will run down from the lateral braces and under the locker floor, but need to be careful that they don't foul the 4 rear-most outriggers. Alternatively, I may just secure the floor to the outriggers directly (easier, if evrything linse up adequately).

I have also removed the 6 steel braces from the underside of the tub floor (plus the rear wheel arch braces). Not a pretty sight. You can clearly see the areas which will need repair before re-lining the floor, including the areas of the longitudinal reinforcers where they are (supposed to be) rivetted to the steel braces.

The good news is that I have decided on how to mod the rear floor area; the fwd wheel box blanking plates (sometimes have spare wheel wells) will be removed, then the section of wheel box inboard of these plates will be cut vertically in line with the back side of the jerry can frames. These sections of wheel box will be moved outboard (approx 5" each) to meet the jerrycan frame. The new T-shaped floor panel will secure the bottom edges of the moved wheel box sections, with the front edges being secured in a similar fashion to normal (the difference being the vertical rivet flange will be removed and strips of ali angle used on the tub exterior to rivet the wheel box to the bulkhead, so that there is no exposed internal lip when I cut the bulkhead away to fit the Evans bar. The lateral hole between the old and new positions of the vertical face of the wheel boxes will be filled by ali sheeting which will attach (with angle section again) to the front edge of the unmoved section of wheel box, spanning outward to reach the wing panel, thus forming not only an inner wheelarch, but also the jerrycan lockers' rear mudwall. I hope that makes sense!

[Millsy]

You ignition switch is packed up ready to go Nick ;)

[Snagger]

Thanks. That means I can have standard wiring for the engine electrics. I had a HD press switch for the heater plugs in the seatbase next to the handbrake lever (batt was under pax seat) and the std petrol ign switch ran the rest of the engine electrics, but I don't really like that arrangement - seems like an untidy bodge - and with the batt going back under the bonnet to make way for the twin fron tanks, I didn't want to have to run lots of wiring back and forth for that switch.:Cool:

[Snagger]

I mentioned before that I'd be fitting a non-standard rear lighting configuration (using standard light units). The 5 options are displayed below.

Only one option has an orange indicator. The indicator will occupy the same position in all other options, but has a clear lens to match the clear front indicators and side repeaters. It'll also prevent future MoT problems with the orange lens fading (as they seem to do after 2-3 years) The stop/tail light is at the top in all cases. The number plate will have its top left corner cut-in around the galv capping with the 3 letters offset to the right to allow for this (I have checked up and it is legal!).

Any of these options will give me double fog and reverse lights, and also fill the existing light appertures, negating any blanking plates. The choice of which to fit is largely cosmetic, with the small exception of using side-light units at the bottom/outboard as reverse lights, as they tend to get to hot and melt the holders in prolonged use with 25W bulbs.

What do you think?

[RPGreg2600]

I like #4

[Snagger]

I like #4

My wife prefers that one too. I was thinking about 1 or 4. That's 2 votes for "4" and one leaning but undecided.:juggle: I forgot to mention that the lights will be symetrical from one side of the vehicle to the other, with the exception of the number plate light, but I'm sure that was obvious anyway.

More opinions invited!:D

By the way, the only way I found of keeping the inside from fogging up was ventilation, especially when parked in sunshine.

[series_3]

I would say #3 or #4

[challisc]

i'lld say three, as its got to have the proper indicator to look right.

[Snagger]

i'lld say three, as its got to have the proper indicator to look right.

Of course, they're upside down in SIII terms, so it's never going to look quite "right". The touble is, the orange lenses keep needing replacement every few years as they fade. They also won't tie in with anything else on the vehicle, as the front indicators and side repeaters will be clear (that's going to pee Helena off as the black and white paint, grey/silve galv and the orange indicators were the principle colours she used on the 109's website, and it'll look very monochromatic if she takes out the orange!:scared:).

I've ruled out #1 as the bulb holder will overheat if reverse gear is selected for extended periods.

That puts it 3.5 votes for #4 and 1.5 for #3 (series_3 having split his vote between the two). #4 is looking to be the likely candidate so far, but I want to finalise the decision before fitting, as once installed, I won't be changing it again! I can always fit orange lenses to the indicators in #4 later if that looks better, though.:rolleyes:

[Snagger]

As you know, I'm now concentrating on the rear tub and its varous fittings. I can't wait to get that finished and fitted as:

a) it'll allow me to align the bulkhead, so I can then finish that too;
b) allow me to fit the rock sliders, which will in turn allow me to fit the front tanks;
c) be a significant advance visually, helping my state of mind, and;
d) get the damned thing off the driveway and out of my way!

The good news: I have decided that lighting arrangement 4 will be used aswell as looking the best and being the technically superior of the options, it also happens to invlove the least work.

The bad news is that the tub floor is in a worse state than previously thought (and that was bad enough). There are more weakened and holed areas of the sheet, and more problematic, of the stiffener channels where they have been in contact with the steel braces. The floor is aslo quite dented between the stiffener and brace positions, with the stiffener spot welds failing in several places. I think the only solutuion is to replace the floor outright. The existing sheeting is 1.5 - 2mm in thickness. As fitting stiffeners to the replacement sheet will be impractical (rivets will stretch or pull through, spot welding is the only method strong enough), I plan to use 5mm sheet to make up the strength. The steel braces will be refitted, so the greatest unsupported span will be 11" between the centremost braces.

Furthermore, the rear mounting angle (the bit that runs along the bottom of the rear edge, fastening onlt the chassis' rear x-member) was not in a particularly good state - the holes for x-member tabs 2 and 4 had corroded though to the bottom of the angle, and all the other holes were enlarged. I've taken it out for replacement. Craddocks list the part at £24, I hope they still stock it!

If anyone has done either of these jobs, I'd loveto hear about it.

[Snagger]

Finding more rot!

You can see the damage to the tub floor and the longitudinal stiffeners where they have been in contact with the steel braces. The close up also shows the stiffeners breaking away from the tub floor (the black line is between the stiffener flange and floor, not along side it) due to the buckling of the floor panel and stiffners. The rear angle section has been removed for replacement as the bolt holes for the rear x-member bolts have expanded beyond limits. The tub is starting to look a bit sorry for itself, but it should work out well with what I have planned.

[Snagger]

I went to the Sort Out on Saturday. I didn't manage to get rid of theose 3 seats, but did come back with another 3. I now have 4 Defender front seats to install as planned, and thankfully, the new ones were cheap, in fine condition, and matched the cloth already in use (Moorland). The seats were sold as a set, as were the first defender seats I bought a while back, which means I now have 2 centre front seats to get rid of. I might just keep those Trakkers after all and use them at the very back, in place of the bleck benches. Don't know yet.

I also managed to pick up a good NATO hitch, a SIII FFR cooling fan (damned heavy, I don't mind telling you), an 11 bladed plastic fan (no viscous unit) which I found after the FFR fan, a 300Tdi intercooler (which should help the 19J's longevity) and a steering guard, all for just under £230. Not a bad deal, although some haggling may have gotten the stuff for less. I just figured that by the time I finished haggling over one deal, I'd miss the next, and the prices were low enough for me to be content. At least the sunburn was free!:hmmm:

I have also ordered all the materials to reconstruct the rear tub. That's another £230, but it should be better than new as I'm using 20mm stainles box sections for the longitudinal stiffening and 3mm marine grade hard ali alloy for the floor and wheel arches, whhich will all be much stronger and much more resistant to corrosion than the original materials. The replacement rear tub cross-member has arrived from Craddocks, so as soon as these panels arrive, I should be able to start reassmbly of the tub.

[Snagger]

I have collected the tub's lateral steel braces from the blaster. Bit of a dissappointment really. I had thought the rust was just on the surface, but should have known better.

The third picture shos a hole in the side of the brace, immediately above the pad where it sits on the chassis bracket. Not only is there a corresponding hole on the opposite side, but all the steel adjacent to the pad has gone too, so the pad is not supporting anything. Several other braces show a less advanced case of the same damage.

I have ordered 6 new braces from Paddocks, Gen Parts, at £15ea. Craddocks also supply them at about £18ea. I'm kicking myself now, as the very first stand I passed at the Sodbury Sort Out had 5 braces in near-new condition, and they were still for sale when I left 4 hours later. 2 of my existing braces are OK, so that would have been the chaepest option, but that's the benefit of hindsight!

[Snagger]

On a more positive note, the exterior of the rear tub has been stripped for painting (2 days with the Nitromors). The inside still needs doing, but as it only has the original paint and some small patches of carpet backing and glue, it's much easier. It'll be covered inside anyway, so the paint doesn'y need to be quite as good on the inside. The bulkhead is not being cleaned up as it's coming out completely (Evans UK bar ready to go in). Some old accident damage can be seen at the rear end of the tub - isopon adheres really well to the ali, and the damage will be as invisible as before.

The underside of the wheelarches have been cleaned up to in preparation for the modifications (front sections are being cut and moved out closer the wing panels to increase floor width by 5" each side).

The third pic shows the new materials (£240 worth!). The floor and wheel arch panels are 3mm marine grade aluminium. The box section tubing is for the longitudinal floor stiffeners, and is 1.5mm stainless steel (to be attached to the floor with Tiger Seal, which acts as an incredibly strong adhesive and electrical isolator, preventing any electrolytic corrosion), so the floor materials are not only stiffer and tougher than the original, but 100% thicker too. This tub, like the rest of the vehicle is being built to last.

[owen]

keep up the good work nick it will all be worth it when its done, it looked great last night, and by the time you've finished it should last another 30yrs and be the envy of most land rover owners


Owen

[Snagger]

it should last another 30yrs

Owen

I will be mightily p....d off if it only lasts 30 years, as it lasted 22 years with British Leyland's poor quality materials and assembly and 9 years of NRA abuse!:banghead2

Thanks for collecting those bits from me - at least that garage is getting clearer. Best to Isla.

[Snagger]

I've been continuing on the rear tub, specifically the mods around the front end of the wheelarches.


As a reminder, I''m widening the front floor area to allow more leg room for a set of Defender front seats fitted as a second row. The jerrycan lockers have already been slimmed down to accomodate 1 water can each (they were too narrow to take 2 cans, so a lot of their space was wasted).

The pics below show the initial marking out for the cuts (black marker) and the panel after cutting. The side panel is being moved 125mm (5") outboard. A trial fit was made with the new sheet across the whole under side to act not only as a mudguard for the floor, but also for the locker (hence the panel being taller than the inner panel).

[Snagger]

The following pics show the panels in trial fit with the locker frame:

[Snagger]

These last pics show:

A view showing the inside of the rearranged wheel arch; an underside view of the near complete mod; and an inside view on completion.

The next job will be to do the same to the other side, followed by removal of the lower half of the bulkhead (top half in view) and repairs to the forwar chassis mounting plates. Then the floor panel will be cut to size and the stainless stiffeners fitted to it. After the floor is fitted to the tub, the new steel braces will be added, and the tub sat onto the chassis.

The tops of each wheelarch will be plated in the same 3mm ali as the floor and mudguards to provide a smoother and stronger platform for mounting the seating and harnesses (spreader plates will be fitted). This will also allow for modification of the rear internal storage locker's lid, so that the forward facing fold-up seats can be mounted at the rear.

On completion of that, the exterior panel damage will be repaired, the holes for the lower NAS lights (twin reverse and twin fog) will be cut, the corner capping modified to fit round the outer NAS lights, and the remainder of the bulkhead cut away (to allow incorporation of the Evans UK bar) prior to painting.

[challisc]

wow, all my tub is getting is a rub down and new rear floor!

well done and keep it up!

Chris

[Snagger]

wow, all my tub is getting is a rub down and new rear floor!



Have a very close look at the steel braces and the floor panel immediately above the chassis support hoops where the chassis meets the braces (with the rubber pads) - the SIII braces have a reinforce above each pad, and this presses hard against the floor panel, causing electrolytic corrosion (as witnessed by the large holes in my floor!). The longitudinal stiffeners are another problem, again due to electrolytic corrosion with the braces where they cross and rivet together.:eek:

If you are fitting a floor panel of over 2mm thickness over the existing floor, do not worry too much about the stiffeners corroding, at the panel will be strong enough with the braces only. Do take a close look at those braces, though, as they're probably as rotten as mine. Paddocks sell Gen Parts Defender braces at £15 each - you only need 3. The Def braces don't have that protruding reinforcer above the pads, so they should not cause such a lot of damage to the floor.

My Mill Services galvanised jackable sills arrived yesterday - they weigh about 30lb each! VERY solid - that sould put a nice ding in the door of the next silly **** who parks too close to me in the carpark when they get out without engaging brain!:D

[challisc]

dont worry, ive done the job before on the ex coastgurad. the one on mine is getting a nice thick chequor plate floor. (dont worry it'll be hiden under a mat) ive sourced two good braces off other projects and only had to buy one new one. all threated with redoxide, then some black paint and eventually a layer of underseal. the only promlem ive got is i am still waiting for the chequor plate!!!

[Snagger]

I have finished modifying the wheelarches on the rear tub. I have also removed the lower half of the tub bulkhead, though the top half will remain until the tub is trial fitted on the chassis in order to maintain rigidity (I don't want to fit the Evans UK bar yet for fear of damaging the powder coat).

[Snagger]

I also trial fitted the new floor braces (Defender); the front most brace is not fitted in the picture as it does not extend to the wheelarches, and the second is trial fitted aft of its final position using the front holes in the brace and the tub's rear brace holes as the brace needs a little trimming to fit between the lateral ali sheets.

I also marked out the dimensions on the new floor panel, and checked the fit of the stainles stiffeners and steel braces. The main floor area dimensions were copied directly from the original flooer panel (rear of picture). For peace of mind, the dimensions were then checked against the tub.

BIG SCARE! The lateral space between the unmodified wheelarches was the same as the floor width near the front, but 6 mm wider than the floor at the rear. the measurements were re-checked, with the same results. The prime suspect was misalignment during the fitting of the new tub rear x-member. The dimensions of the rivet and spot weld points correspond exactly with the new x-member on the left side of the tub, and are less than 1mm out on the right hand side, and both sides are perfectly square, so this could not be the problem.

A few minutes head scratching saw me check the dimensions of the old floor against the tub again, with the same 6 mm difference. I then checked the position of the floor-wheelarch panel spotwelds: the welds run along the edge of the floor panel,but along the centre of the wheelarch floor flange. More accurate measurement of the huck-bolt holes (that hold the steel braces in position) showed the tub to be correct and the original floor to be undersized!

The new measurements were marked out on the sheet and were then cut, so I have a millimeter-perfect floor panel; no gaps around the edge like the Land Rover floor panel. Tomorrow I will fit the stiffeners and then attach the floor to the tub. Once that's in, the braces will be bolted on. I should also be able to fabricate and fit front tub-mount repair panels and the Defender lower seatbelt brackets, which fit in that position. This will allow me to turn the tub over for final removal of the bulkhead and fitting of the Evans UK bar.

I have also loosely assembled the Evans bar and opened up the MIll Services sills.

[owen]

Looking real good now mate, keep up the good work

[Snagger]

Still plodding on, but giving Gaz a chance to get ahead again.;)


The new rear floor has been cut and the stainless steel stiffeners fixed with tiger seal. The fuel tank inspection panel has been cut so that each side is supported by a stiffener, and each end supported by the lateral braces. I also chose to have one large panel instead of two smaller ones as this would enable the centre of the panel to be supported by the intervening lateral brace.

I have also fitted the instrument panel, wiring loom, ignition switch and indicator stalk, primarily to get them out of the way. I have found that the SIII diesel ign switch that I aquired to replace the original petrol switch (so that I would not need the heater plug switch fitted on the seatbase) is no good - the switch positions do not allow for the ancilliary circuits to be live while starting. This is fine for a 10J engine, as the fuel is controlled by the stop lever. On a 12J or 19J, it's a big problem, as the circuits need to be live during starting to open the fuel pump's stop solenoid. I'm going to refit the petrol ign switch, and move the heater push-button switch to the lower facia, immediately left of the steering column shroud.

I have also been weighing up whether to graft the back of the SIII facia to the back of the Def facia, or whether to cut away the central bulkhead bulge and plate over in order to allow the new facia to fit. The bulkhead alteration seems most practical, as all work will be hidden by trim and allows the space below the facia to be used for accessory relays (due to cable recess in back of facia). However, I'm not comfortable with the concept of cutting structral items to fit around trim - it just seems the wrong way round.

I have nearly finished cleaning up the tub - just a few more patches of paint to remove before fitting the new wheelarch tops and the floor. I have removed the bulkhead completely now, and the difference is enormous. The storage locker at the rear left corner will be getting slight alteration - the hole will be further outboard in the 3mm plate to enable me to fit the forward facing Trakkers on the corner. This means cutting the apperture in the original top further out towards the wing in order to keep the hatch a decent size. The hatch will close flush, rather than on top like the original.

[challisc]

the mind boggles at the amount of time and money youve spent on the tub alone!! tho the results are very good, keep it up!

[Snagger]

the mind boggles at the amount of time and money youve spent on the tub alone!! tho the results are very good, keep it up!

For the materials and the bulkhead removal bar, about £450. Add painting to come, fasteners, trim (planning to use the plastic sheeting from Wright Off Road), seating, etc, and it's racking up. With so much still to do, I can't see me being able to rebuild the 19J for a while, so the 12J will be going back in.

[A C H]

Nice work so far Snagger's keep it up. :bowdown:

[Snagger]

I now have a floor in my tub! You can see how much extra space is created by removing the bulkhead and moving the forward section of the wheelarches.

The next jobs are to fit the new wheelarch top panels (full length), cut the lower rear light holes, fit the corner cappings and temporarily fit the Evans bar. It'll then be turned over again to fit the 6 floor braces and the front body mount repair panels. I should manage all that on my next weekend.

[challisc]

ohh, after many years of studing i have come to the conclusion a floor is a good thing! and shows sign of progress (wish i had one!) I was debating on my 109 to cut away some of the tub, either side of the wheel arch. would this be possable? pratical?

[Snagger]

The tub is nearly done - still have a few finishing jobs before painting, but not too far away now.

While the weather has been bad, I've had a fiddle with the 12J. The rockers are done, and I've flushed the water system through with caustic soda to clear away any deposits. The old core plugs are being replaced, and a quick clean will finish it. I had expected to need to replace the rear crank seal, but there are no oil traces, so I'll leave it well alone. The other good news is that I was expecting to find a SIII flywheel and clutch assy, and was planning to fit the spare 19J's to make sure every thing was optimal, but have found that the 12J's flywheel is still fitted, and only the friction plate is SIII. The flywheel is in great condition, but I'll be fitting a new pressure plate with the new friction plate with the new clutch kit. This saves a bit of work, and was an unusually pleasant suprise in the "damage assesment" aspect of the rebuild.

Once I have finished tidying up the 12J, I'll lift the head on the 19J. It runs wel, but was told that it was using a fair bit of oil. Given the 19J track record, I want to have a close look at the pistons and bores. If it just needs re-honing and new pistons/rings, I'' fix it and fit it. If it needs more than that, I'll fit the 12J and rebuild the 19J in a couple of years' time.

One concern that I have is that the 12J always got a little hot (a needle's width below red-line) on warm days when going uphill in 4th, especially with OD engaged, even if maintaining 50mph+. Going downhill afterwards in the same gear did not seem to bring the temperature down either, though the temperature would drop to normal withing 20 seconds or so in 3rd gear. It obviously has to do with engine rpm. Initially, I thought this may be a problem with the fan not drawing enough air through the rad, but at higher road speeds, the fan is redundant. I now think the problem is due to low water flow in 4thO/D, due to lower rpm for the speed/engine effort. Since this problem continued with new radiators, removed thermostats and new water pump, I think I need to look at either a smaller diameter pump pulley, or a higher capacity pump. Both my pumps have the cast impeller. I have been told that later pumps had impellers made of pressed steel sheet, and that they are more efficient and give greater flow. Anyone know anything about these pumps?

[Snagger]

The usual problem - too much work, too little time. I have been at the 12J's rockers, but didn't realise there were 4 pairs of rocker type - I thought they were all just left or right handed - so some of the pads don't line up with the valve stemns. I need to re-strip and rebuild the shaft with them all the right way, fit the new core plugs and touch up the paint, then I'll be able to drop it into the chassis. Thankfully, none of those jobs are too expensive, though I need a new clutch pressure plate before mating the engine to the transmission.

I'll have to carry on with low cost jobs for the next few weeks, as my employer screwed up the payroll and didn't pay me for April (will be back paid, at least), and the Range Rover got jealous again, and is having a new power steering box today (£££!). At least I have all the materials to complete the rear tub, so I can get on with that too whenever the weather is good enough.

[Snagger]

The 12J is back together and ready for fitting. It has just had a bit of a clean up, new clutch kit, core plugs, rockers and shaft. You can see the state of the old rockers in the picture below. The old clutch cover wasn't that bad, but had been fitted for a long time, so was replaced with the friction plate. The spiggot bush is in fine condition.

I have swapped the lower part of the thermostat housing over with the 19J so that the later thermostat (74deg) can be used, and also because it's in better condition. The upper part of the housing is SIII in order for the SIII rad and hoses to fit directly.

[Snagger]

The engine also got a fresh coat of paint. All that remains to do is to replace the timing belt and fan belt, which will be done with the engine fitted to give more support when undoing the pulley bolt.The 19J is pretty filthy, but it'll stay as it is for the next couple of years until I can rebuild it.

[challisc]

Ohh Shiny, a qustion on the tub, were did you get the removal bar and how much? ive manged to get hold of a tub with no center bulkhead, and thought it wise to get a bar as the sides are really flimsy!

[Snagger]

Ohh Shiny, a qustion on the tub, were did you get the removal bar and how much? ive manged to get hold of a tub with no center bulkhead, and thought it wise to get a bar as the sides are really flimsy!

Protection&Performance. Their website is at www.evansuk.ltd.uk (http://www.evansuk.ltd.uk) - I don't know the price as my wife bought it for me for my birthday!;)

I didn't mention above that the picture of the new rockers shows the misalignment problem I had. This was down to the sequencing of the different rocker types. That fault has been cured, and all the rocker pads are aligned with their valves.

[Snagger]

I have just been in touch with Wright Off Road, as I plan to fit their system again on completion.

I'll be fitting the same front mat system, but in dark grey to match the door casings/seat vinyl. I'll also be getting the kick panels, as, though they are made for Def footwells, he checked the dimensions for me and they can be trimmed to fit SII/SIII footwells without any gaps. I'll also be buying 2 sheets of the flat sheeting (chequer plate effect) in the same colour to cover the rear load bay and wheel arches. List price for all this is £400, but he seems open to discussion! The down side is that he is going through the VAT registration process, and that should be complete in about a month, so to avoid paying VAT, I'll have to order sooner than I had planned.

[alex]

Snagger
Another 400 quid? Are you sure this is a series Landy? ie cheap basic agricultural vehicle. Oh well mate as long as you know what you`re doing :D
Alex

[Snagger]

Snagger
Another 400 quid? Are you sure this is a series Landy? ie cheap basic agricultural vehicle. Oh well mate as long as you know what you`re doing :D
Alex

Who ever said that Series Land Rovers had to be loud, raucous, beat-up old things? I much prefer the SIII to the Defender (speed excluded) because it is a tougher, simpler and more engaging vehicle. It is quite easy, though, to make day to day life with it more bearable, even comfortable! By the time I finish this rebuild, I'll have spent about £15,000, including all the repairs and replacements over the last 13 years. You could buy a decent 300Tdi 110SW for that, but not spread over 13 years, and how long would a 5-8 year old Defender last compared to my properly built, galv structured SIII? And that value also includes all the accessories, like lights, sills, triple tanks, parabolics, etc. It's costing a fortune, but it's woth it for the satisfaction and quality, even if it is a little slow (65 with the 12J, but should manage 75-80 with the 19J and roof rack, so not much slower than Def anyway).

Quick update: I have fitted the modified corner capping on one side of the tub (over a coat of etch primer and some Tiger Seal). A trial fit of the rear lights looked great. I'm going with the SIII pairing at the top of the capping, but with the stop/tail lights uppermost, and a clear lensed indicator immediately below. At the bottom, where the indicator goes on Defenders, I have NAS round fog lights (hence the capping mod), and the ususal position for fog/rev lights sees NAS round rev lights on both sides.

I also etch primed and Schutzed (twice) the underside of the tub floor. The lateral braces (already zinc coated by LR) brush coated with zinc rich primer, and had their upper sides Schutzed (twice, again) befor fitting to the tub. Where the brasec meet the tub floor, I have inserted a rubber sheet isolator. No electrolytic corrosion this time round! I still need to drill the holes through the brace-stiffener pop rivet points. These holes will go all the way through the floor, and then be counter sunk from above, to allow the floor to be bolted through the stainless stiffeners to the braces, thus being vastly stronger and stiffer than the original and current Defender design. Once that's done, the underside of the braces and wheel arches will be Schutzed too.

The 12J goes in tommorrow. I'll try to fit the pedal boxes too, and get some photos of it all.

[alex]

Mmm. I know what you mean Snagger . I was just trying to get you to wax lyrical about your Landy :D. We all enjoy listening to a real enthuisiast!
Cheers Alex

[challisc]

a lot of dosh, but a darn good vechiel, but costs aside 400 squids for soundproofing?!?!

[Snagger]

a lot of dosh, but a darn good vechiel, but costs aside 400 squids for soundproofing?!?!

Plus the £100's worth of engine bay and bulkhead kit I bought from NoiseKiller. Should be very civilised. It means the kids should be able to watch DVDs in the back without headphones.

[challisc]

you'll have an ondoard computer and ABS next!

Yours is a 3dr right, not tempted by a SW? (just a side topic)

[Snagger]

you'll have an ondoard computer and ABS next!

Yours is a 3dr right, not tempted by a SW? (just a side topic)

Thought about an SW body before I ordered the chassis, but I wanted it to be as much of my old LR as possible, hence repairing the tub and not replacing it. The hard top is also a better exped and load vehicle - I'll be making the rear seats de-mountable.

As for electronics, just the single slot CD player Helena bought me 2 birthdays ago. The DVD players would be the portable 7"screen type, with power outlets in the rear of the cubbybox. I see enough of over-complicated embedded systems at work.

[challisc]

FFS i thought you were joking about the DVD players!!! its almost like a top of the range 110 droped onto a S3 chassis and drivetrain!!!

[Snagger]

Just some pics of previous work; the tub flor and lateral braces (still to be Schutzed), the completed rear panel and modified capping, and a comparison between the standard fan and FFR fan to replace it.

[Snagger]

Bloody annoyed today. As mentioned, I was going to fit the engine. The idiots at HSS confirmed my booking but never entered it into the system, so the crane I was supposed to use was not available as it was being serviced. They went to Dunstable to get that shop's crane, but that had been hired out without being entered into the computer too, so no crane. I spoke to their customer services and gave them a rocket (something that I very rarely do). They have promised me a free crane for the full weekend - I won't hold my breath.


Since I was unable to fit the engine, I did a few other bits and pieces. I have made up a rear fog and reverse light harness by the rear x-member, ready for the tub. I also extended the cabling for the rear wash/wipe and heated rear screen, as some of the cables were a little too short. The connections were all soldered and covered by heat-shrink tubing.

Next I refitted the gearstick, having replaced the reverse light switch. The wiring was fitted to the switch (red connects to the main rail loom to the lights, blue will be connected to the ign circuit via a 5A fuse). I included a picture because fitting reversing lights is a FAQ.

With that done, the pedal boxes both went in (primarily to clear some space on my workbench). The brake master cylinder (new) has been wiped with engine oil and wrapped in an oil soaked rag to try to keep the rust away while it's exposed.

The next opportune job was to start on the lower facia mods. The Defender facia won't fit the SIII bulkhead because of the central "bump". I had 2 alternatives - mod the facia with parts cut from the SIII facia, or cut away the bulkhead bump. A friend talked me out of the latter, though it's probably the easier option, so I'm now trying to mod the facia. I have cut up the old and tatty SIII unit to remove the rear "arch" and top panel. I got as far as marking out where to cut the new facia when the kids went to bed. Noise stops play.

I'm still in two minds about whether to mod the bulkhead or facia: the bh mod would be easier, quicker and possibly neater (invisible), however, it would be more permanent and any mistake disasterous.

Just in case anyone is curious about how the heater/demister splitter works, the last pictore shows a view through the top of the (old) facia of the driver's side footwell vent. The splitter flap is closed accross the top of the vent (as is the pax side's) diverting all the air to the demisters. the flaps move on the torque tube operated by the slelector lever via a Bowden cable.

[challisc]

ohh, ok i'll rephrase what i said, a better then top of the range 110 droped onto a S3 Drivetrain!!

Ive been borrowing a crane of a friend for the last 5 years!!!

[alex]

The ribs on your tub Snagger which you got from Paddock are they Genuine or Pattern?
Alex

[callum]

looking good, but..

get a move on i've been waiting weeks since you got your rocksliders to see how you were going to fit them and keep your sidelockers.

a situation i may face in the future and i'm keen to see how someone else overcomes the problem.

callum

[Snagger]

The ribs on your tub Snagger which you got from Paddock are they Genuine or Pattern?
Alex

If you mean the lateral braces that are still in their zinc primer, they're Gen Parts from Paddocks at about £14 each. They come with a thin zinc plating on them already, but need a bit more protection.

If you're talking about the 3 longitudinal stiffeners that are sandwiched between the floor panel and braces, these are normally 1mm ali channels spot welded in place, but I have used 2mm wall thickness stainless steel, bonded to the floor and to have 2 countersunk M6 bolts through the floor and stiffener to the braces on every intersection with the braces.

[Snagger]

looking good, but..

get a move on i've been waiting weeks since you got your rocksliders to see how you were going to fit them and keep your sidelockers.

a situation i may face in the future and i'm keen to see how someone else overcomes the problem.

callum

Tsk, tsk! Patience! ;)

It'll be afetr the tub's fitted that I can fit the sills, as they, like the bulkhead, take their alignment from the tub. If you want to fit sills to your 110 but have the same lockers, the job is quite simple (you don't need to see mine complete because the SIII attachment method is different to the 110's anyway.

You just need to grind off the vertical return on the lower frame angle (where it sits over the face of the existing sill), leaving a flat strip between the front and rear parts of the frame. The door will need the bottom cutting off, so that the entire locker system's bottom edge sits in line with the bottom edge of the tub. Allow a little clearance on the door so that it doesn't scrub the new sills.

I have some pics further back of the modified frames. The doors haven't been cut down yet, but it shouldn't be problematic.

The "floor" panel of the lockers may pose a proble to 110 owners, as you loose the sill support for the floor. I have to move the floor slightly inboard to allow for the thicker sill, but the 109 has 2 large square section outriggers which provide a good platform for the floor, and the rear wall (in tub) is much stronger than the original, giving another solid fixing point for the floors.

[alex]

Yeah the zinc plated metal ones that corrode against the ally floor panel. Another £84-oo? I`ll be making mine :D
Alex

[A C H]

Well Snagger, it sounds like it's coming on nicely, did you get the engine in? and the big question do you think it'll be ready for Billing?

[alex]

Snagger
Just jumping ahead a bit to the 19j rebuild. I remember you saying that you had info on the pistons not being made to correct spec. Would this have been by Power Train the subsidiary of Rover. I`m just trying to figure if Hepolite or someone could help on the detail and spec of a stronger piston for this engine unit. Have Turners any input on the subject? I think they use AE. engine components on their rebuilds so I wonder what like that companys pistons are. I may rebuild one of these 19js myself in future as it`s a nice smooth unit and I still think it`s the best all round option for a series. I just have a feeling if this engine is redone properly with good cooling and the benefit of semi synthetic diesel oil it would be more than adequate in the longevity stakes. I know a farmer who had one from new and he started getting bother at 40k with it but he was regularly towing and working it`s backside off. Anyways I hope I`ve not sidetracked you on your rebuild :D
Joking of course cos I know you love all these issues ;)
Cheers Alex

[Snagger]

OK, so we know I didn't get things done as planned on Thursday. Not everything went swimmingly this weekend either, though I achieved a fair bit.Whilst waiting (with bated breath) for the crane to turn up, I got on with the NATO hitch. Some of you have been helping me out with my enquires as to how it attaches to a civ x-member. Marslands were less helpful, just saying that they advise against it. One or two of you gave remarks that were consistent with the diagrams in the Parts Catalogue. The guys at Blanchards also gave the same advice on how NATO hitches were fitted to military SIIIs with civ x-members.

Unfortunately, this meant fitting the hitch to the plate, and then the plate to the x-member. This means that the 4 1/2" bolts passing through the hitch itself do not go through my x-member, so I guess I won't be using it with Kinetic Energy Rope recoveries!. The plate itself showed witness marks (the paint!) of this installation having been correct. On the bassis that the re-inforcing scrolls inside my rear x-member were positioned where the hitch bolt holes would have been drilled (making that method of attachment impossible anyway), and that the non though-bolt method was sufficient for the MoD, I have gone along with it.

The old drop plate was removed. This had an aftermarket twin step just below the x-member at quite a useful height. This step (after painting) has been attached directly to the x-member, just below the new hitch. This new position, combined with the new suspension config (1-ton chassis and shackles with HD parabolics) means that the step will be 4 or 5" higher than before. Might need to carry a llittle step box in the back now!

[Snagger]

As for the engine, I did manage to get it in. There were a few complications - the lhs mount bracket on the engine was from the original 2.25p to match the unaltered chassis mount, which was only noticed after the engine was lowered into position. I also had trouble getting the alignment between the engine and gearbox, regardless of however much shunting and levering was applied by Helena and I. In the end, the unit had to be lifted back out for a few adjustments on the lifting chain before a second, successful attempt. This also gave an opportuninty to swap the lhs bracket with more space.

Once the engine was in (with new clutch), the bell housing was tightened up and the new mounting rubbers fitted. The gearbox and engine are now fully secured.

The next job was replacement of the timing belt. The old belt had only covered about 10-15,000 miles, but having stood for so long, I wasn't going to take any risks. The new Dayco belt went in without any trouble (by the way, scrap R380 reverse light switches make perfect flywheel locking tools). The cover and water pump have been refitted.

The plan to fit the FFR fan went awry. The 12J accepts a SIII 4-blade fan with no alteration. You would expect that would allow it to take the FFR fan, but the internal diameter of the FFR fan pulley is smaller than the normal pulley, so it won't fitt onto the pump shaft. The bolt holes are also about 1mm different in location. It also turns out that the outer diameter of the FFR pulley is significantly larger than the std pulley, so the fan and pump would turn slower - as I think the temperuater issue of 12J/19J engines in SIII vehicles is one of water flow, the FFR fan would have increased the problem, rather than easing it. The original fan and pulley have been cleaned back to white metal and sprayed with gloss black enamel. They'll be dry for installation tomorrow.

The final "missing" part is the alternator. This was removed earlier today as I think it has been overcharging the battery and behaving erratically when running, causing the ammeter to pulse. The battery will also be renewed. I'm also uprating from the std 43A to an alternator capable of 80-100A, if I can find one that will fit. Failing that, I'll just use the 65A alternative listed.

Ready for Billing? Yes. Next years.;)

As for the 19J pistons, I was told this by a good friend who works on LRs professionally, and knows lots about engines. Turners also alluded to it. I don't know who made the original pistons, but the new Heppolite parts are meant to cure the problem. The other issue is the piston bore oil jets, which were often ill fitted and damaged, causing premature failure of the jet and loss of piston lubrication and cooling. Turners rate the 19J quite highly, saying it only gas trouble if abused (over heated or infrequent oil changes).

[alex]

Snagger have you the part Nos for the Heppolite pistons and have you been quoted ££££?
Alex

[jjsaul]

nice work so far snagger :)

[Snagger]

Sorry Alex, but no. Turners will be able to help - I have always found Frida very helpful on the numerous occasions I have picked hers or Richard's brains, dispite having spent little with them so far. I'll be getting them to do my 19J overhaul later.

[Snagger]

Not got a great deal done in the last 2 days - I'm mainly trying to fit stuff to clear some workspace. The SIII 4cyl fan has been sprayed and fitted, and a 65A alternator ordered (the biggest i could fit to the 12/19J without fabricating brackets and pulleys, but should be enough as I don't have plans for a winch, and I'm not as brave with a grinder and welder as ACH!).

I also fitted the bumper and bullbar to get them out of the way. The bullbar just needed cleaning up with some WD40. There is a small plit in the plastic on one of the uprights, with a little rust starting to form underneath. I have brushed in some waxoil, and I'm hoping I caught it in time. If anyone knows a product which will seal the split back up, please let me know.

The bumper needed a re-paint, and I have fitted the 3.5T Dixon-Bate tow jaws outboard of the bullbar for front recovery. 150x75x10mm plates were fitted to reinforce the bumper for these recovery points.

It's suprising to see from the side how much space there is between the front of the engine and the bumper/bullbar, but some of that will disappear with the fitting of the front panel, 4 row HD rad and MoD oil cooler. Still to go into the engine compartment are the steering link and aircleaner assy. I need to conjur a battery mount, as the recent under-seat position is to be used for the third fuel tank. The plan is to have a battery tray similar to the original SIII item, but removeable and higher to allow for the engine's fuel pump.

[Snagger]

Spoke to Steve Parker today to talk about the temperature problems I was having pre-strip. The consensus was that the main problem is likely to be the 2.25p exhaust. I have orderd a full 2" system (correct dia for 12J). He is also having a look around for a 10J fan and shroud, as he thinks the petrol fan fitted to my 12J is not big enough. These, in conjunction with the military oil cooler and the plan to fit an electric fan as a booster for the belt driven fan should ensure adequate cooling in the worst conditions. There goes another £250!:rolleyes:

Anyone after the middle and rear sections to a 109" petrol exhaust - apparently I have a 4 year old DoubleS system available!

[brada]

Beautiful WORK man, I'm so sorry find this forum to late to see your working pictures (LEARN A LOT) but maybe for next time, there was not possiblities here to order spare parts and I make them part by part hand made, also similary rework back space. That defently show up lot of new space.

Unfortunately my camera still do not fuction and pictures will be in week or two (but with finished painting)....
Keep going

[Snagger]

Thanks Brada. There's still a great deal for me to do, so there will be plenty of pictures and "lessons" to come. Every time I learn about new problems and new solutions, I try to share the issues in the hope that it may help others with similar trouble.

Thankfuly, some of the things cropping up cure more than just one problem - an example is the forthcoming exhaust; as well as fitting more easily and replacing a damaged system, it should cure the overheating and offer an improvement in engine performance. The rear floor was another similar situation - I needed to replace it all due to significant corrosion (not just a matter of placing a chequer plate on top). This has meant a considerable amount of work, but I now have a floor more than twice as strong as the original design, made from non-corroding materials, with more foot space for rear passengers, better access to the rear fuel tank and more flexibility in loading/seating.

This sort of benefit occurs rfrequently during this rebuild, and is testament to the versatility of the vehicle that some alterations can have numerous and wide ranging benefits.

Hope to see some picture of your work soon. I can imagine that finding parts out there must be tricky, but it's worth the effort.

[GS1000S MAN]

Hello Snagger,
Your doing a real nice job on your Landrover. I am glad to see someone else is going through what I am going through.
I like the steps either side of the Nato hitch. I am having to fit my nato hitch to a civy rear crossmember too. I am making up a plate with 4 thick walled tubes, welded to a piece of 1/4 plate. I will drill through the face of the crossmember with drills the diameter of the bolts, then the rear of the crossmember will have holes the size of the thick walled tubes. When the hitch is bolted to the crossmember, the bolts will go through the tubes and pass through the 1/4 plate. When bolted tight, it will sandwich the rear crossmember with the hitch and the 1/4 plate, but will not crush the crossmember, as the tubes will stop it from happening. :rolleyes:
If you get my drift.
Well there will be some pics when I do it anyway.
Good luck with yours and look forward to seeing the body on.

Gaz

[Snagger]

He's back! Where have you been, stranger?

I know exactly what you mean for attaching your NATO hitch. I was planning to do the same, but when the mounting plate arrived and the paint marks showed that it fitted the way the parts catalogue suggested, I decided that if it was deemed strong enough by LR and the MoD, it should be strong enough for me, and that there was no point in making things more difficult than they need be!

[challisc]

if any use ive got a spare backplate for a nato hitch.

[Snagger]

Thanks Chris, but I'm going to leave it the way that LR designed the application for civilan chassis.

[buzz]

I have just seen this thread, nice job snagger well done.
Seems its going to be quite a smart piece of kit!

[A C H]

Snagger, this may be of interest!

[Snagger]

Thanks Adam, you have a PM.

I have just learnt that the 2.25p and 2.25d fans and rad cowls are different, the diesel's being larger. As the original petrol unit's were used when the 12J conversion was carried out, this may also be contributing to the heat problem. So, having had 4 different fans so far, including balsting and refurbishing 2, I now need another! If anyone has a spare 10J fan and matching shroud, please let me know.

[Snagger]

Well, no-one seems to have a fan or shroud, so I'm parting with another £55 for a new pair. I've also ordered a new pair of front seatbelt tie-bars (braces from the chassis' floor support bracket to the captive nut/spreader plates either side of the centre seat). They are no longer made for SII/SIII, but the 110 component is near identical (no captive nut) and completely transferable. Worth knowing if your tie bars are getting a bit rusty, as they're a highly stressed component in an accident (worth a quick clean and look, and check the condition of the ali "shelf" that the spreader rest under, as these corrode badly where the steel spreader contacts them).

I have been sorting out the oil cooler, prepping it for fitting. I must have spent 2 hours straigtening out the cooling loops, one by one, and I still have 1/4 left to do. Tedious doesn't begin to describe it. It then needs a good clean up and spraying (silver ali exhaust paint). Once it's done, it, the rad and front panel will be fitted.

As for the tub, I just need to fit the repair strips to the front mounting web (where it connects to the middle outriggers) and finish painting the underside with Schutz before it can be lifted onto the chassis. The wheelarch top panels will then go on, the rpairs to the corner be completed and the corner capping attached. Still don't know whether the painting will be done on or off chassis (I'd prefer off, but I'll see what the painter says).

[brada]

I finally finish Painting ... (moust of ...) just to se how that look's like and rework part of command plate (may be there is better word for it but I'm very bad with english (mehanical part)

I also add picture of home reworked front doors, no any coverage (it was in very bad shape) but also i do made doors stronger with 1.5mm AL plate and put it all around of standard METAL , lot of BODY 999 (silicon seal) on all ends of all, and under al reevets (? is that correct word).
Doors become stronger, AL plated all from inside (NO RUST ANY MORE). new sliders for windows...... .

[Snagger]

The new large bore (2") exhaust arrived a couple of days ago from Steve Parker. This is the correct bore for the 12J. I got a new set of mounts with it too. It was already painted with high-temp ali paint, but I gave it another layer for longevity. It's all hanging in place, all connected together, but I'm having the usual trouble aligning the back end so that the muffler doesn't knock against the chassis rail (the way they hang tends to rotate them so they do this). If anyone has any hints or tips, do share!;) Once I have got the rear and intermediate sections set fast so that the muffler hangs clear I'll touch up any little scratches and take a few pics.

I also fitted the refurbished oil cooler. It looks a little lonely on the no.2 cross member at the moment, but the rad panel has been blasted and red-leaded, and is nearly fully painted (gloss black). Once that and the rad are ready, they'll join the oil cooler.

I have given the whole underside of the tub another 2 coats of Schutz, and the (galv) chassis got another coat (that makes 6!). The tub will go on soon (as soon as the exhaust is set), hopefully tomorrow. It'll get painted in situ to avoid any damage to the new paint during fitting.

Hopefully get some of this done with pics tomorrow night.

[Raincrow]

Snagger

The complement posted is much appreciated,,,, In truth, near leaves me in a stammer in the work and resourcefulness you've put into your landy...... Inspiring work sure-nuff !!!







, and under al reevets (? is that correct word).


Brada

"Rivet" is the word in question, and fret not the language. It's supposedly my native tongue and I too can butcher it to well beyond comprehension of may.

[Snagger]

Ok, so anyone who has read my post on various other threads may have picked up that I've not been in the best of moods of late. Now I'm really pi**ed off. After a total of 6 hour dicking about, I still can't get the exhaust to fit. This means no installation of the tub, alignment of the bulkhead, fitting of the rock-sliders or forward tanks or any other satisfying jobs until the sodding exhaust is on.

I don't know whether it's me or the exhaust, but I can't get it so that it doesn't foul the x-member behind the gearbox ans the rear left spring shackle. Most positions result in the muffler box knocking against the chassis rail too, and every position with the sections all bolted together pulls the muffler mounting starp well out of line. I think the exhaust is an inch too short in the middle and possible not bent at the correct angle on the tail pipe. I'll have to check with the mnfr tomorrow, because it could just be something I'm doing wrong, but I can't imagine what.

I did at least get some pictures of the offending parts, the oil cooler and Schutzed tub underside.

[weedy]

i think the rubber that you are useing for the muffer is to shor and will lead you the wronge way

[Snagger]

I got 3 rubbers with the kit, 2 of which also had the pipe clamp. I'm pretty certain all 3 rubbers are the same, though I will double check. It still doesn't explain why the rear section is being pulled so far forward.:(

[challisc]

Read the Sig.... ive been here a few times.

Its often the way. as with gazs' and my own one step forward.........

[Snagger]

Read the Sig.... ive been here a few times.

Its often the way. as with gazs' and my own one step forward.........

Yes, but when you pay £250 for a special exhaust to fit the specified engine/chassis combination, there shouldn't even be a stumble, never mind backward step.

[Newsreader]

I know you got a specialist to tailor make the exhaust, but if it was me I'd be questioning whether it was actually made up correctly ... :dunno:

[Snagger]

I know you got a specialist to tailor make the exhaust, but if it was me I'd be questioning whether it was actually made up correctly ... :dunno:

Hey, it's me, the greatest cynic of them all!;) The thought had occurred, but I don't want to make any such remarks until I know whether it's me not fitting it correctly, or the exhaust that's at fault. Quite a good effort in self restraint, I thought!:D

[brada]

Hey, it's me, the greatest cynic of them all!;) The thought had occurred, but I don't want to make any such remarks until I know whether it's me not fitting it correctly, or the exhaust that's at fault. Quite a good effort in self restraint, I thought!:D

Hey man do not be nervouse, look from brighter side. I must make last summer completle new exhaust system, friend from university ran small manufacture for
exhaust system and he was glad to give me time in work shop from 17:00 - 24:00 do it my self, and i spend there whole week to made f****g pipes(?) problem was old one was so rotten I can not even take dimension's...... :( .

Cheer up and turn them back...... :D

[challisc]

its no been designed for a SW or High cab or sumthing?

[Hubber]

Any Chance Of Some Up To Date Picts :)

[Snagger]

Any Chance Of Some Up To Date Picts :)

Say "please"!;)

I'll get some more later today. Anything in particular that anyone would like to see (requests to see me hanging by the neck from the house's gallows brackets will be refused)?

[challisc]

but who will take the pic?

[Hubber]

Say "please"!;)

I'll get some more later today. Anything in particular that anyone would like to see (requests to see me hanging by the neck from the house's gallows brackets will be refused)?


please can i see you hanging from the house gallows :) but onlt after the truck is finished. so up to date picts will do till then, :)

[Dew1911]

Please could we have pics of Hubber getting fired out of a cannon into the middle of a Snake pit with nettles in it.

[Hubber]

Please could we have pics of Hubber getting fired out of a cannon into the middle of a Snake pit with nettles in it.
pray why my son :eek:
git :)

[Snagger]

More pics...

Firstly, the new 4 wheeled vehicle that I completed today, with help from the kids, that I'll be taking to Billing...

next tha update pics - not many changes, but you can see the fitted rear fuel lines and sender unit cable (could not be in main loom due to impending tank selector switching), the rear wiring harness completed and fully fitted (incl extra lighting, rear w/w and heated screen).

[Snagger]

Next the 2" exhaust. the rear and intermediate sections now fit perfectly, due to the disconnection of the front section and the re-use of the original mounting straps in place of the plain rubber straps provided with the new unit (they stretch and distort too easily).

The front section needs alteration. It seems now, after much study, that a few of the bends are about 5 deg out, and this is throwing out the alignment completely. It means that I can fit the tub and worry about the down pipe later.

Muddybungy is coming around tomorrow to weld the mounting lugs for the QT front diff guard. That means that not only will the axle be complete, but Ill be able to fit the steering rods permanenlty, but also the steering damper and steering guard. I'll see if I can rope him into helping me lift the tub on too.

[Snagger]

I also have some disappointing pictures of what a DoubleS stainless 2.25p ehaust looks like after 4 years and less than 30,000 miles of road-only use, and some pictures of some very unique accessories Helena bought me (genuine!).:eek:

The stickers are "low vis" versions, ie white on tansparent. Should look good on the black bodywork.

[Hubber]

I also have some disappointing pictures of what a DoubleS stainless 2.25p ehaust looks like after 4 years and less than 30,000 miles of road-only use, and some pictures of some very unique accessories Helena bought me (genuine!).:eek:

The stickers are "low vis" versions, ie white on tansparent. Should look good on the black bodywork.
good stuff, i always think its beter seeing the picts as you go along cos i get a beter idea at whats going on
cant wait till it done and we can see the finished product :)

[Hubber]

oh and i love the wee trailer, always wanted one of them for the bairns :)

[challisc]

Looking great, soon the tub will be on, doors to line up... You'll be driving it to the billing! (with the little trailer on tow too!!)

[Snagger]

Looking great, soon the tub will be on, doors to line up... You'll be driving it to the billing! (with the little trailer on tow too!!)

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but it'll be going to Billing next year - the wings, vent flaps, side panels and roof still need stripping, I need to cut holes for the Alpine lights, the passenger door sill needs dismantling, reskinning, the whole lot needs painting, including the bonnet, the doors all need reassembly, and then there's still the matter of fininshing the brake and clutch lines, wiring, assembling the body and kitting out the interior. It'll be quite a few months yet; I'll be pleased if it's done by Xmas.

[Dew1911]

Good luck and keep up the good work,.

[Snagger]

A good day today. I got the fitted sections of exhasust cleaned up and painted with a 3rd coat of high temp ali paint, so a good thick barrier now with no scratches from fitting. I also re-schutzed the chassis where the exhaust had knoked against it during fitting.

The steering is now complete, having replaced the last 2 rod ends in the system and fitted the steering box drop arm, relay top arm and the rod between them.

I then cleaned up either side of the front diff pan to prepare for muddybungy's welding. He has fitted both the lugs for the front end of the QT diff guard, which will be bolted in after schutzing the axle case. I have already fitted the matching rear QT Salisbury guard. I have also been looking at how to fit the steering guard - the guard's bolt holes need drilling out a little to fit on the spring bolts, and I need to use longer spring bolts (shackle bolts should be fine) and a pair of 1/4" spacers as the steering guard is about 1/2 narrower than the inside distance between the dumb-irons ( :confused: ). I'll get those tomorrow, hopefully along with my diesel fan, rad shroud, seatbelt tie bars and Filter Mag (got one on the RRC already).

Muddy also gave me a hand on with the tub (top bloke). It's just sitting in place at the moment. I plan to fit it with appropriate sealant between the chassis brackets and tub parts to prevent any future corrosion, and then have it painted in situ (to prevent handling damage after painting). Take a look at how high the vehicle is sitting - the bottom edge line of the tub and jerry can lockers is only just below the top of the tyres, and those are 235/85s! It will sit a little lower once the complete body is on, the rock sliders are fitted and the 3 fuel tanks are filled, but the combination of HD paras and 1-ton chassis and shackles give it a huge lift.

[Snagger]

The tub...

Only downside today - muddybungy spotted a dribble of oil on my nearside front drum; the stub axle needs replacing as it had a small groove when I replaced the hub seal 3 years ago.:(

[Hubber]

The tub...

Only downside today - muddybungy spotted a dribble of oil on my nearside front drum; the stub axle needs replacing as it had a small groove when I replaced the hub seal 3 years ago.:(
You have certainly put a great deal of work into this project and it shows. Looking good. well done :)

[owen]

Nick any chance of some pics of the rear diff guard, asi h ave been uming and arhing over a scorpion one,

Does it cover the complete bottom of the diff like the scorpion one, any chance of a few pics ?????

Many thanks

Owen

[Snagger]

Hi Owen,

As requested, pics of the front and rear QT diff guards.

The front is the Series type. It is cut at half height on the front (compared to the Def version) to make way for the track rod, but is otherwise identical to their std unit. The rear part bolts into the under side of the diff housing, using the bolt holes used on RRC/Disco/Def for the steering damper bracket. The only "work" in fitting them is welding the lugs to the front of the axle case, either side of the diff pan, to bolt the fron onto.

The rear unit only coevrs the rear section, not underneath. It's a lot more robust than the competitors' units. Bolts are supplied and it's a 10 minute job.

[Snagger]

Got the gen new diesel fan, but it's a bit bright for my taste, and the paint was a bit thin in places, so it has now been sprayed with gloss black enamel. The rad and rad panel are all set too - just going to let the paint harden a couple more days, get the diesel cowl on Tesday, fit them all together and fix to the chassis.

I have also sorted all the dings and dents in the tub, fitted the remaining capping (over etch primer and Tiger Seal to isolate the metals). The £mm marine ali wheelarch tops have been cut and fit to cover the entire arch tops from front to rear of the tub, including the relocated locker door (rear left corner). the door had to be relocated to allow the Trakkers forward facing seats' hinges to be fixed near the inboard edge of the wheelarch top. This also required cutting of the original material to move the lid hingeline outboard to keep the lid size useable.

Muddybungy came round to have a look at a problem with the tub alignment (more in next post), so I loosely fitted the lights so he could see the finished config.

[owen]

Cheers nick, think i may go for the scorpion one, i have the pucker qt defender one on my 110, and it is the nuts, but i think i like the idea of a full underside one for the rear

Keep up the good work

[Snagger]

OK, very annoyed about this. I can't fit the tub. The alignment between tub and bulkhead was miles out, so I started to take a close look around. The tub is also well out of line with the flanges on the centre outriggers.

The new floor is as straight as a die, the lateral braces and their rubber pads are all fitted correctly and the tub is square. The front of the tub sits very high, so that with a string line run along the corner of the body radius to the bulkhead, the string meets the rhs of the bulkhead about 5mm too high, and the lhs about 12mm too high. Close inspection also showed that the front tub mountings are 10mm out on the left, a little less on the right, that some of the chassis' tub supports are not contacting the tub's rubber pads, and that the gap between the top of the dampers is not equal from side to side. Muddy also noticed a difference in chassis rail-top to tub-support top distance from l-r. The result is that the tub floor supports have been fitted incorrectly, and all will have to be cut down and re-set.

The plan is to remove the tub and aft fuel tank, cut away the tops of all 12 supports, fit the tub aligned vertically with the bulkhead, then mark, trim and tackweld the front and rearmost support pairs. The tub will then come off again for the front and rear supports to be fully welded. A length of box section will then be clamped unto the supports to provide a "jig" by which to resize and weld the remaining supports.

A lot of extra work. Not impressed, given the price of the chassis.

[landymaniac]

nice job!! keep it up;)

[Snagger]

I'm getting really p'd off with motor trade workmanship now.

I have a £1500 chassis which would not accept any bolts because they can't be bothered to re-drill and tap the holes. It is also mis-jigged and has to be altered to fit the tub.

I have a £250 mild steel exhaust that doesn't fit.

I have a £130 pair of jackable sills that came with no fitting instructions, and when those arrived they proved next to useless. The sill also need regalvanising as the coating is so thin that it wore through on the delivery truck, exposing 12" strips of bare steel on the edges.

I have to have the rear door and rad panel repainted because they weren't done properly, and the bulkhead needs a bit of polishing on the left door pillar when the job's completed.

Parkers are already on the case with the exhaust, so that should be sorted soon, but I'm going to aske for Mill Services to pay for the sill to be re-galved and for Marsland to pay for the welder's services in adjusting the chassis. It reall galls me to pay through the nose for supposedly top quality parts that are not fit for purpose.

[Hubber]

Yes i agree fully. however it seems something about workmanship now, like the roads, the pay the workers a bonus which means they cut corners and the holes are never filled in correctly. i'm sure yours is much the same, take the money and get the job out fact, no matter that its not done right and most people will moan but do little else.

[Millsy]

That's very disappointing Nick, I always thought Marsland were supposed to be one of the best? :(

[challisc]

You really are getting a hard time of it all :(

Time for some Mcay's Chips (or whatever there called)

[alex]

As I`ve mentioned before we are keeping a whole parts industry going and get very little in return. We also keep four magazines going but then it is a classic/enthuisiast movement. Yeah you`re on a low just now Snagger but you have the old mates here to cheer you up. I`m building a Locost 7 and one of my fellow builders was asked about his lowest point during his build.
"Oh that was when I was holding a plate against another one to drill a hole through both of them and drilled a 4mm hole through the centre of my hand".............That is a low point in a build :eek: I always try and tell myself one thing at a time and no schedules......it`s a hobby! Take it easy mate and great work.....nothing can spoil it now :D
Alex

[Snagger]

Thanks for the support!

Well, a half appology is owed to Mill Servs, as once I contacted them and explaned the issue wioth the sills, he said it's likely to be staining and polishing in the zinc from transport, and that a light scrubbing of the surface with a mild abrasive (I used a Scotchbrite pad) should sort it. Most of it did clean out, so there are only a few surface "disappointments" left - I'll have to see what happens when the fresh zinc dulls down, but he said he'd re-dip them if required. There is a small (1/2") chip in the galv exposing steel, but it hasn't rusted yet, and some dull silver paint should take care of it. So, the sills are made fine, they just lack decent packaging on shipment.

As for the chassis, there seems to be no other explaination for the alignment problem, especially since the rest of the chassis seems to be millimetre perfect. The bulkhead is an original SIII unit with no trace of rust, damage or repair, and is all correct. The tub is being held up by it's floor braces, which are Gen Parts and have the same dimensions as the originals, and the underside of the floor sits on the same wheelarch and rear bulkhead mounting flanges as the original floor, so it cannot possibly have cahnged level. Marslands say the measurements I gave for the front hoops check out with their other chassis and that their jigs would not allow such an error. Well, something has to be wrong somewhwre, and since my tub fitted the original chassis...

[challisc]

Dont suppose your old chassis was bent? stupid i know but not unlikely. and since the tub has sat on the chassis for so long it would get a twist. only a thought.

what is the tub needing to do? ie down at the front??

[Snagger]

Dont suppose your old chassis was bent? stupid i know but not unlikely. and since the tub has sat on the chassis for so long it would get a twist. only a thought.

what is the tub needing to do? ie down at the front??

Good thought, but no, the tub seems straight (and it had to fit the original chassis at some point too). It's sitting 5mm high on the front right corner, and 12 mm high at the front left. This all matches up against the bulkhead, front tub brackets and dampers, as photographed.

I'll do some more extensive checks, but it looks like i'll be cutting and resetting the floor supports.

[challisc]

It's sitting 5mm high on the front right corner, and 12 mm high at the front left....

....I'll do some more extensive checks, but it looks like i'll be cutting and resetting the floor supports.

Quite drastic! hmm, sounds like the only solution. really gutting!

[Snagger]

No recent work except preparing the bits to fit the rad with front panel and the steering guard.

Went to Billing twice (first with the family, as they all like LRs), the second time to look round all the parts bins. Spent about £150 on various things including a 200Tdi steering wheel, gen Defender battery condition guage, spring shackle bolts to fit the steering guard (longer bolts needed through the dumbirons), a 3 door set of stainless hinge bolts and a few other bits and pieces. Spoke to Drew Wright about the accoustic mat package that I'll be ordering - since it'll be a big order, he said he'll do me a discount after the show.

Also suffering again from "specification creep"; I picked up a Warn XD9000i for £275 (complete) and have been talking to Protection and Performance about some roll-over protection. I'm planning to get a pair of internal hoops with longitudinal top bars to go behind the front seats and at the rear. No diagonal braces as the vehicle would not be used for challenge events, so any roll is unlikely to go upside down. As soon as we come up with a fixing system for the front hoop that won't interfere with the front tanks or jerry can lockers, the order will go in. A guide figure was £300-350 complete.

[owen]

Not bad mate. so what you gonna do about ur chassis,

????

[Snagger]

Not bad mate. so what you gonna do about ur chassis,

????

Muddybungy'll help me take the tub off, cut the hoops to length and butt weld the tops back on (that way the main rails' galv won't be affected).

[owen]

So whats been happening Nick

[Snagger]

Well, last w/e was Billing, so I got a few bits and pieces there Tried to find a few people, but no luck; tried the SIII club several times to find ACH, but failed.

Since then, all I've done is clean up and paint the rad, sprayed the rad panel and put them together with the expansion bottle holder. I've tested the winch (Warn XD9000i), and can happily report that it works correctly; the solenoids make a very reassuring thunk too. It will need preping and painting as it looks rough, but it was a good deal for £275. Looking at the mount, I think I'm going for the Bearmach unit. I have also found a better painter for the panel work. The chassis still needs sorting to fit the tub. Marsland say their measurements are correct, but either way, the tub still doesn't fit. They have at least agreed to send new floor support brackets which will make re-attachment easier. I know exactly what to do, it's just a matter of Muddybungy and I having the time to do it.

Having fixed the water leak in my house's loft, another started in the bathroom, causing a fair bit of damage, so that's what I'm working on right now. I promise to get something done and pictured on the 109 in the next week, honest!:D

[Snagger]

The steering guard, front panel and rad are on, but the fan's bolt holes don't line up with the 12J water pump's bolt holes, so a little driling will be needed to fit that.

The old outer shackles from the front springs has one end cut off in order to use them as spacers for the steering guard (perfect size and already have a spring-bolt hole). The cut end had a smaller hole drilled in line with holes drilled towards the rear of the guard's flanges and the dumbirons to accept M10 bolts, so aech side is fixed with the front spring bolt and an M10, The spacer were schutzed to prevent corrosion and to match the chassis.

The rad and front panel went in without too much trouble, dispite having to fit the assy over the pre-fitted oil cooler. Holding it in position with one hand while fitting the lower fixings with the other was a bit tricky, especially when it started slipping about on the copper-greased rubber pads, but it went together without damaging anything.

Pics tomorrow, hopefully.

[Snagger]

OK, pics of the cooling system.

First, a comparison between the 2.25 peterol and 2.25 diesel (10J) fans.

Next, the front panel, rad, fan shroud and expansion tank fitted. Note the cut-away on the shroud. Learnt something new today: the water pump on the 12J and 19J are higher up and further to the left than SIII engines; this became apparent when turning the engine over by hand - the new fan came into contact with the matched shroud. Since the block is externally the same, and mates onto the transmission without any trouble, it is obviously in the same place as the SIII block, but the redesigned timing housing and water pump are centred differently.

Finally the view from the other side, including the mounted Kenlowe Hotstart unit. The plug is mounted on the left side of the bumper.

[Snagger]

And the steering guard (first pic shows the fixing bolts for the right hand side, front of veh to left of pic, with the cut-down shackle sandwiched between chassis and guard). I fixed a Land Rover badge in the centre to hide tha awful, cheesy "4X4" lettering.

[A C H]

Mice work so far Snagger sorry that we didn't meet at Billing which day did you go? :rolleyes:

[Snagger]

Adam, are you trying to say something? I always thought myself a man, nor a mouse, but you appear to know otherwise! :p

I was there Friday and Sunday. I'm sure we'll catch up next year, if you can bear the logistic nightmare that is traveling with a baby!;)

[weedy]

we travel with two baby and two little kids and have done it for two year now and in a series swb two

[A C H]

It would have been mice to see you, to see you mice, but Friday was a bad day (the business with Max). Sunday Tina was on the stand nearly all day and I was milling around trying to find a bargin.

Obviously not having any experience of babys (apart from Scottie and Steel) I'm going to say we will be in the caravan next year at Billing, I believe Owen and Isla are going to try and attend as well with their littlen, I'm sure we'll manage to have a bl**dy good laugh, space hopper racing! :D

And it is very mice work!! :D

[owen]

Yeah me and isla will be there with baby, i reckon, I mean Isla and Tina put up with me and adam,
LOL
Owen
P.s. Nick, come on finish it,

[Snagger]

P.s. Nick, come on finish it,

I'm trying. In fact, some would say I'm very trying, but I digress...

Got the bikini winch mount from Bearmach today. Dispite being advertised for the SII/III, there is no way of mounting the thing further back so that its bolt holes line up with the bumper bolts. If it wasn't for the bull bar, I'd just make some tie-strips from 5mm plate with 4 holes, tieing the rear of the mount back to the dumbirions. But with the thickness of the mount, plus the tie strips, the bull bar would be raised 10mm, which is ridiculous. That leaves me with the options of either butt welding some 50mm extensions on each side or just to mount it to the bumper only. At least with the latter, there would be little risk of it ever damaging the chassis as the bumper would fail sacrificially. I'd prefer the extensions, though.

I also plumbed in the Hotstart with some new 5/8" heater hose, and ordered a new speedo to replace the broken original.

I'm looking for an electric oil pressure guage to match the batt cond indicator, so if anyone knows of a manufacturer who makes oil guages that match Defender guages, let me know.

[A C H]

Snagger, it's a pitty you're not closer, we could have sorted something out for your winch in the HD line. :D

[Snagger]

I had a go at trial fitting the winch bikini mount, together with the winch and bullbar, to see how much alteration may be needed. As I said before, the winch mount was going to need some work for it to fit in a more secure fashion than Bearmach seem to find acceptable (attached to bumper only!). I also had strong suspicions that having the winch mounted above the top of the bumper would result in its solenoid bridge fouling the light bar on the bull bar. Well, it does. No real suprises there. In the pictures, the bull bar is sitting approx 1.5" further forward than it should in order to clear the winch (1" gap, though it looks closer in the pics). the top bolt holes in the bullbar feet should coincide with the winch mount's holes, but you can see how far they're out.

Instead of making up some extensions for the winch plate to tie it back to the chassis, I'm going to remove the vertical strip from its underside. This strip sits along the front edge of the bumper, with 2 bolt holes to secure the front of the mount (making a total of 6 securing bolts). The mount will then be set back so that the top holes line up with the bumper bolts. The front of the mount will be attached to the bumper again for stability, but by drilling vertically through both near to the bumper's fron edge. The mount's ends will be trimmed to fit behind the bullbar feet (which are attached only to the bumper, not the chassis). This way, the winch will sit nearer the rad, allowing direct mounting to the chassis and correct location and clearing of the bull bar. The bottom of the Defender front panel will need some slight work around the bottom edges, but I anticipate fitting the full Def grille without cutting holes in it; if some areas do need trimming away, this will pose no problem.

Incidentally, I noticed the brown patch on one of the bullbar's uprights when shrinking these pics - its just a leaf in a cobweb, not rust.

[challisc]

good winches them. all this talk of bikinis i thought you were fitting a soft type version... my skip reading giving me bother as aways.

[owen]

SO whats happening with the rear tub at the mo NIck

[Snagger]

Nothing until I get days off over a weekend, and Muddybungy has time to spare on the same days. It should be a fairly straight forward, if fiddly, job to rectify. I'll be glad to get it done; the tub and some other bits can then go for painting and then be properly fitted, and a whole host of other items fixed (sill, fuel tanks, etc.). Got a lot of other things going on though (some house plumbing repairs and redecoration, and some work on the Range Rover, which take priority over the 109 as it's more valuable and is still being used as daily transport. Don't worry; it's not a dying project and it's not going in mothballs (after all, having just got the winch and mount, and recieving the new speedo yesterday, I need something to attach them to).

[Hubber]

Nick have you ever posted picts of the RR? if you have can you point me in the right direction and if not, howe about a couple please.

[Snagger]

Nick have you ever posted picts of the RR? if you have can you point me in the right direction and if not, howe about a couple please.

I don't think I have. Maybe the blown turbo hose and droning wheel bearings are a cry of jealousy?;) The hose took 5 minutes to replace, and has cured the system. I'll be replacing all 4 hoses with silicone hoses soon (and removing the EGR valve while I'm at it as they cause turbulence in the induction pipe and manifold). I plan to replace the wheel bearings tomorrow (I always relace axle sets, rather than just one hub), so I'll get some pics then.

The 109's new temp/fuel guage cluster arrived in the post today - it's going to replace the original std unit that I had tidied up and refitted (installed in the instrument panel pics). The new unit has the water temp on the left, fuel contents at the bottom and oil temp on the right. I saw it on Holden's website when I was looking for an oil pressure guage. Including VAT and p&p it cost £190 (I already have a brand new oil cooler compatible sump and oil temperature sender with wiring) . Ordering it (not a neccessity, after all), caused a brief conflict of opinion between Mrs Snagger and me, but not neccessarily how you might expect it to go. It was something along the lines of:

Mrs S: " Are you going to buy it?"
Me: "No."
Mrs s: "Why not?"
Me: "Because I don't need it and can't justify £190 on it."
"But you want it, don't you?"
"Yes, but I don't need it, and it's too expensive just to gain an oil temp guage."
"It's your money, you can spend it on whatever you like."
"I know, but I can't justify that much on something I just want, not need."
"Well, you want it, don't you?"
"Want, yes. Need, no. It's too expensive."
"Order it. If you don't buy it, I will!"

Who am I to argue?

The exhaust downpipe arrived back today. I'll try to fit that in the next couple of days. Apart from charging me for the postage back to them (as I reluctantly agreed to), they have (in my absence and without agrement) charged the redelivery to me on my credit card. Customer service is obviously an alien concept to that outfit. I haven't come across many organisations that insult their customers and then charge them for dealing with production faults, but it just goes to contrast how helpful some other companies are. I'm not holding my breath as to whether it'll fit.

[challisc]

some get it all!

[Snagger]

Well, I'm mildly suprised, but the down pipe fits. I'll give it another coat of ali paint and then take some pictures. Hopefully the new system will not only help the engine run cooler, but free up a few 'lbs and bhp too.

I finished the RRC's wheel bearings this morning (wet job, but it needed doing). I took it out for a test drive and all seemed well except for the rear wiper which started making a graunching noise, so that needs stripping and rebuilding now. Doesn't stop, does it? It's going in for pressure washing and waxoiling next weel, so that'll see me another couple of hundred pounds lighter.

I have ordered a new Defender oil pressure guage to fit in the centre of the dash, alongside the battery condition guage. That's another £82 (I'm hoping the sender is included as a kit, but I suspect it's a separate part). I've taken some pictures of the various guages and will post them as soon as I can get access to the other computer (Mrs S is working on it today).

My friend Muddybungy suggested a trip to the Sahara when he finishes rebuilding his rolled 90. We both came to the conclusion that north Africa is probably not going to be a safe place, but decided that a Scandinavian expedition might be on the cards. It also means that if either of our rebuilt vehicles breaks down, we stand a strong chance of getting it back to the UK, unlike from the Sahara. Personally, I think it would be a much more enjoyable trip with friendly locals and beautiful scenery, and a great deal less banditry and official corruption. It'll be good to do an exped in the 109 too, since it's being rebuilt to that sort of spec.

I also had a look at his G90 shod Wolf rims. My 8-spokes are slightly rusty, but rather than blasting them and repainting, I'm considering the Wolf rims. I don't need new tyres, but a set of G90s would be good, in which case a set of 4 BFG ATs with 5000 miles and an unused Pirelli Dakar might be on the market along with the 8-spokes.

[callum]

wolf rims be good, but dont bother with the g90's, they're pretty crappy, wear alarmingly and are pretty sketchy on wet corners, and your bfgs will be better.

[Snagger]

Fair enough. I know about the G90 wear reputation, but the come in 2 grades, the harder one supposedly being good for 25-30k. I think I can get them cheaply enough that wear is not a factor, but I'd be interested to know more about the cornering issue.

As promised, firstly some pics of the RR Classic. It's a 300Tdi with R380 and soft dash. It's a Vogue, but not an SE, so it has the coil springs and cloth interior (not as plush as the leather, but more comfortable and practical IMHO). I have added an alloy tailgate, heated front screen and heated front seats. The previous owner fitted the wheels, police rear springs and side steps.

[Snagger]

Here are the instruments that I have been talking about.

The first pic is of the Smiths ammeter (30A, so not enough with the new alternator and winch) and the capilary fed oil pressure guage that are staying off (fitted pre-strip down). If anyone wants them...

The next is of the Defender battery condition guage that I've been banging on about to find a matching oil pressure guage. It not only looks at the voltage of the battery, but the depth of charge, hence my desire to stick with it and find a match, rather than use after-market oil and volt guages.

The last show the new speedo (2m on the clock, presumably run up during calibration) and conbined instrument cluster.

[whitewolf]

As promised, firstly some pics of the RR Classic. It's a 300Tdi with R380 and soft dash. It's a Vogue, but not an SE, so it has the coil springs and cloth interior (not as plush as the leather, but more comfortable and practical IMHO). I have added an alloy tailgate, heated front screen and heated front seats. The previous owner fitted the wheels, police rear springs and side steps.

Very nice indeed.....just perfect for bobtailing that!:D

Right up Mrs Wolfs street.;)

[challisc]

hehe, just a few hours with a jigsaw and some duck tape :D:D

G90's , great off road - leathal on, undriveable in wet conditions so if you get them i'lld advise you use them as an off road tyre only!

[JohnBoy]

I saw on a board somewhere in refernce to the g90s

"responsible for killing more squaddies than syphilis"

[Snagger]

Very nice indeed.....just perfect for bobtailing that!:D

Right up Mrs Wolfs street.;)

:eek::eek::eek: It's too nice for that!!!

Seriously though, it only needs a few tweaks here and there, and it's a comparitively rare spec being soft dash with Tdi and coils, so I plan to keep it as original as possible. The springs and wheels can easily be swapped for standard and the running boards removed, though I like it the way it is for now. The heated screen and seats are invisible except for the gen switches, so are not out of place. The only mod I'd consider now is aircon (using gen parts to keep it discrete and in keeping), but that's all. No extra lights or protection, etc.

[Snagger]

Well, today has seen a few little jobs done. I ali-painted the down pipe (4th coat, like the rest of the system) in situ to cover any scratches made during fitting, so that should hold rust at bay ror quite some time.

The speedo and temp/fuel guage cluster are installed and wired up, and the sppedo drive cable was refitted after close inspection and pouring half a can of 3in1 down the sleeve. I have set it up ready to take the oil temperature signal; I just need to swap the sump over for the new one with the sender unit tapping I bought off here (after I give it a thick coating of black enamel).

The reverse light cabling is full installed, and I fitted the front end of the gearbox tunnel cover.

I have also been playing arrond with the loom, connecting up everything I could, but I may have a short on the main loom feed from the sarter solenoid - I have a circuit between the brown lives behind the dash and the white ancilliary circuits, dispite the ignition switch and alternator being completely disconnected. It worked fine before the strip, and I haven't modified that part of the loom (only removed old mods and repairs to do them properly), so I'm at a bit of a loss. I'll find it, but it may take some time.

[Snagger]

Only a few small jobs today due to the weather and the fact that I'm on standby (not a day off).

I've cleaned and repainted the new oil sump. It has 2 extra tappings: one for the oil temperature sender unit and another for the oil cooler return line. The oil cooler on the 12J and 19J is fed and returns to the oil filter housing (whereas the SIII oil cooler uses a single pick-up from a sandwich plate between the block and the standard SIII filter housing). Since the sump's return line tapping is redundant with these later engines, it has been blanked with an M10 nut and bolt, appropriate washers and judicious use of Tiger Seal.

The winch plate has been cut to fit. The bolt holes will now accept the bumper bolts (rather than a second set of bolts 45mm ahead of the bumper bolts as per Bearmach's fitment), so the mount will be secured directly to the chassis. This was achieved by removing the strip from the underside which nestled against the front of the bumper (seen infront of the mount), allowing the mount to sit further back. The front edge of the bumper will now be along the red line, as opposed to the silver line left by removal of the offending strip. The corners ahead of the bolt holes were also removed to clear the bullbar feet. There is still plenty of material to provide full winching capability (the material removed was unstressed). It has now been etch primed ready for painting black.

[Snagger]

Started the engine today. I put about 30l of fuel with a botle of Slick50 fuel system treatment in the aft tank, a 60/40 mix of anti-freeze/water in the cooling system and filled the sump with cheap Tesco's diesel oil. The oil will be run up to temperature when I get the chance and have some Wynn's oil flush run through before draining. The combination of new oil and flushing agent should really clear the system. The new sump will go on after the flushing.

I ran a few direct feeds to get the engine started, shorting some temporary wires to the heater plugs, fuel solenoid and starter solenoid to get it going.

I had a close call. Having carefully checked all of the fluids and hose conections, I forgot about the rag stuffed in the airbox pipe. After a minute or so's running it got sucked in and the engine didn't run so happily. There was a fair clatter from the #3 cylinder rockers. The rag had entered the cylinder and was jammed in both valve in the cylinder. Removing the intake manifold and holding both the valves down with levers enabled the removal of the rag. The engine ran again after refitting the manifold and rocker cover with no apparent ill-effect.

I think I have also traced my wiring short between the live electric feeds (brown wires) and the ancilliary electrics (white wires). Removing the fuse from the hazzard light circuit (purple wire) stops the short. I'll have to take a close look at the hazzard system wiring later.

Got the Range Rover back today from having a small patch welded on a body mount and having the whole underside pressure washed and waxoiled. I got him to remove all the splash guards and filler strips before work, so all the cavities are done too. Muddybungy used about 2 gallons of the stuff, so it's pretty well covered. It cost a bit as it had to be done through Rogers, but it's worth the investment.

[brada]

Last two (on one picture) can you tell me how much they cost you.
Unfortunately I was pusshed to change them with some aftermarket (of other wehicle's) but one day I will purchase genuine...AGAIN:rolleyes:



Here are the instruments that I have been talking about.

The first pic is of the Smiths ammeter (30A, so not enough with the new alternator and winch) and the capilary fed oil pressure guage that are staying off (fitted pre-strip down). If anyone wants them...

The next is of the Defender battery condition guage that I've been banging on about to find a matching oil pressure guage. It not only looks at the voltage of the battery, but the depth of charge, hence my desire to stick with it and find a match, rather than use after-market oil and volt guages.

The last show the new speedo (2m on the clock, presumably run up during calibration) and conbined instrument cluster.

[Snagger]

If you mean the speedo and conbined oil/water/fuel guage, the speedo was about £90 new from Craddocks and the combined guage £160 from www.holden.com .

Haven't done any more over the last couple of days and won't get a chance until thursday at the earliest. I have the wiring details for the hazards and engine heater plug relay now, so they should go in soon. I'll be getting a new hazzard flasher as they're only about £4 and the old one would sometimes make a hell of a screeching buzz and seize (a hard thump would get it working again), and I'm going to get a timer relay for the rear wiper to give 5 second intermittent sweeps.

[Snagger]

The glowplug timer relay is fitted and wired up, so I only need to connect the alternator and fabricate an engine-bay battery mount to complete the main harness.

The winch mount has been finished and fitted, along with a repaint of the bumper. The mount and bumper were etch primed, blacke enamelled and sprayed with a thick coat of matt black stone guard. The relocated winch mount now sits back far enough for the winch not to foul the bull bar and should only require the trimming of the the bottom 3" of the Def front panel. The mount is now attached directly to the chassis at the rear, with 2 1/2" bolts secring its front to the front edge of the bumper. Once fitted, the roller fairleads should be flush with the front edge of the bull bar, giving a neat and discrete installation.

The curved SIII front apron panel (sits between fron wings) will need to have the forward-most 1" removed in order to fit behind the winch mounting; this can quickly be seen to with the grinder. Fitting the apron will ensure that all ram air forced through the grille passes through the rad, rather than spilling down through the void infront of the x-member. It should also help prevent mud and debris being thrown up into the rad when off road.

The pictures show the assembled bumper, mount, bull bar, Dixon-Bate tow jaws and Kenlowe Hot Start plug. The view from the rear-right quadrant shows the Hot Start unit mounted on the inclined rad panel plate, above the steering relay.

I'l be doing some detailed marking up of the tub alignment today - Muddybungy is planning to help get the tub mounts sorted out within the next week or so.

[toppa]

Been following your thread, and must say that the 109 is looking realllllllllly good.

It looks like its going to be a awesome truck when finished.
Cheers.

[Snagger]

A few little jobs done towards the tub fitting.

I have cut the tops off the chassis' forward 6 floor support hoops. Once the tub has been bolted in the right place using the rear x-member and middle outrigger mounts, the front hoops will be measured and marked, the tub removed and the theoops welded back in. Once the front hoops are in, a length of box tubing will provide a straight datum to align the other cut hoops for refitting. By cutting them as I have, the welded joints will be in compression, thus less likely to crack, and the welds will be far enough away from the main rails to leave the galv coat unaffected.

I have also refurbished the oiginal sills removing all the filth but leaving the galv in place. There were a few small patches of light surface rust where the galv has given way (principally on the front end brackets), but a spray of silver enamel and Waxoiling when fitted will give plenty of protection. The lower door seals have been removed to fit new counterparts.

[Snagger]

The front tub mounts have also been repaired with a section of 3mm marine grade ali sheet bolted behing the damaged sections. The new sheets extend the full span from the outer tub skin to the first diagonal floor reinforcing web, and are held in place with 4 zinc plated high tensile 1/2"AF bolts. The vertical 5mm galvanised steel strip is one of the rock-slider stabilisers - the rock-sliders secure to 3 of the outriggers, and this strip provides anti-rotation stability.

On the front of these sections, as further reinforcing, I have refitted the lower part of the Defender seatbelt brackets (outboard), and fitted a matching inner lower bracket, so that all 4 chassis outrigger brackets fit to the repaired tub mount AND the 3mm steel brackets. These brackets align with the chassis brackets and have studs that pass through the "shelf" behind the seatbox. The outer studs will engage on the Evans Bulkhead removal bar and the upper half of the seatbelt bracketry, while the inner studs will just have large washers and nuts.

Between the 3mm ali sheet and the 4x 3mm steel brackets, the mountings should be significantly stronger than the originals were when new.

I have also fitted the seatbelt buckle stalk captive nut plates (inboard). All this area was given a good undersealing before fitting the Tetrasealed steel brackets to ensure complete isolation. Once tighened, the nuts and bolts were sprayed over to prevent any possiblity of electrolytic corrosion.

[challisc]

just wondering are you fitting spacers to the axles to help the wheels stick out a bit more?

[Snagger]

I'm running 235/85s on 7" rims. The offset from the outer face of the wheel to the outer wall of the tyre is 4", so the sidewall is about 3/4" proud of the wing. If I fit Wolf rims I'll need spacers, but the existing rims don't really need them.

[Snagger]

Gave the forward fuel tanks a thorough clean inside and out before fitting the new sender units, feed pipes and strainers. The outsides were red-leaded by the blasters, but have now been sprayed with matt black enamel. They're ready for fitting - just need to attach the sill bars to the chassis first. To do that I need to fix the sill mounts to the chassis outriggers. The rear most is fine, but the middle bracket gets sandwiched between the rear face of the tank and the outrigger, so fitting is going to be tight.

[Snagger]

Couple of pics of the refurbished front tanks. Both had been set up for diesel in their previous applications, one with a soldered connector, the other with an extra feed pipe to act as the return lines. The soldered connector has been thoroughly injected with Tiger Seal, while the pipe and bolt holes vacated by the removal of the returning feed line on the other tank have been blanked with nuts and bolts, with plenty of Tiger Seal bteween the tank skin, washers and bolts.

The diesel return line will feed to the rear tank only as I will already need 2 tap to select between the 3 feed lines and adding more taps to select different return line will be over complex and unneccessarily expensive; far simpler to use the rear tank first when full, and then select the front tanks.

One feed tap will select left or right front tank, and that will feed into a second tap which selects between front or rear. Both taps will be fully furnished with the plunger switches to automatically display the fuel contents of the selected tank on the single fuel guage.

[Snagger]

Today I finished drilling the bolt holes on the tub mountings and chassis brackets. The tub is now ready for fitting in order to align the floor supports, bulkhead and the sill bars. Once theyr'e all set, the tub will come off and go for painting, along with the seat base. The remaining sill bar mounts will then be secured and the forward fuel tanks mounted.

As soon as the tub comes back, the tub will be final-fitted, the bulkhead removal bar installed and the rear lights fitted and connected. Once the tub and seat base have been final-fitted, I'll install the fuel tank selectors, fuel lines and handbrake lever.

I also stripped, refurbished and reassembled the fuel taps. They were covered in fuel/dirt mix, paint and corrosion. They were mounted on one correct bracket and one botched steel strip. Both have now been mounted in brand new brackets. I am fitting 4 new plunger switches (on order) for the automatic fuel guage change over. One tap required a new internal gasket as the original was badly perished. This is not available separately, and as the taps are £67+VAT new, a new gasket was made from fuel resistant gasket material, seen next to the failed gasket. The other tap had serviceable components, and just needed cleaning up. Both have been leak checked and are satisfactory.

It turns out that the 2 new taps I had bought on-line some time ago are the return-line change over taps for twin-tank diesel systems. They mount on an extra bracket which attaches to the primary bracket, and are operated simultaneously to the feed tap by a lugged collar and operating rod that sit on the feed tap's handle-shaft. As I said before, I'm using a single-line return system that will send all unused fuel from the injectors to the rear tank; aswell as being cheaper and simpler, it'll be less prone to leaks or seizures, with only half the number of fuel lines, unions and valves than in a selectable return system.

[Snagger]

Just spoke to Blanchards this morning to order some spare under-seat fill front tank cap seals (listed by LR as no longer available), and have several on their way to me. I also saw that they sell the change-over taps about £13 cheaper than LR, and supply the internal gaskets separately for about £5, so I have a couple of those coming too. They still stock the associated fuel lines and fuel tap guard strips (a bracket inside the cab that prevents accidental contact with the tap handle by heavy boots), also both shown by LR as unavailble, and Defender oil pressure guage sender units, which my local LR dealers cant't even find details of. All in all, a big thumbs up for stocking a lot of older parts at good prices, even if the pressure sender costs £55! I've had a few things from them before - I'm becoming an admirer of their service.

[Snagger]

A little more wiring today. The 65A is now fully connected with ring terminals and 2x60A cables running to the starter solenoid terminal. I used 2 such heavy cables to minimise resistance or heating. They are wrapped and follow the original cables, which have been left in place to retain their plug to allow easy fitting of 43A or 65A alternators so I won't get stranded in an emergency.

I now have a crowded solenoid terminal, with the battery +ve lead, the 2 original alternator cables, 2 new alternator cables, 2 dash and ign feeds, heater plug feed and an accessory feed that passes through the bulkhead to a bus bar and relays beneath the dash (as per Def fuse box). The headlights, bull bar spots and twin horns will have their relays (4) mounted on the top of the rad panel, taking feeds straight from the battery terminal. The 7 accessory relays under the dash will be for the TD5 heater blower (2), heated rear screen, heated wing mirrors, roof spots (2) and front seat heaters.

[Snagger]

Not done anything in the last week except work. Hopefully, I'll get the tub on for alignment of the sills, bulkhead, etc...

Typically, having decided to use a single fuel return line system, I subsequently thought of a couple of flaws with the idea:
a) it would cause difficulty in using vegoil fuel in the future as the kits use separate tanks for starting on normal diesel and running when hot on veg oil, and;
b) should the rear tank be holed through damage or corrosion when on an expedition, it would not be possible to isolate it from the rest of the fuel system.

The conclusion is that since I already have the retun line valves and the tap brackest incorporate fixtures for the return valves, it would be sensible to fit them. All that is needed is a few feul lines and the collar and operating links that connect the feed tap handle to the return valves' operating arms. Naturally, none of these are available, even from Blanchards. the fuel lines can be made up easily enough, as can the links, but the tap saft collars may demand a little enginuity.

I really wish I didn't have such a habit of complicating things. This was just meant to be a straight chassis swap!

[callum]

for misc fittings, www.flowtech.co.uk is worth a look. i think you need to get them to send you a catalogue. they have lots of hydraulic fittings and hoses along with lots of other stuff there. a lot of land rover stuff is bsp thread, so that makes life a lot easier, meaning you can use standard no lr-specific parts, especially when dealing with fuel and water.

i'm not sure they're the best around, but my dad's company sells the stuff so it comes to me at a preferential rate and they have alot of the stuff in stock. maybe worth a look if the catalogue is free, even if you do find acheaper supplier.

[Snagger]

Thanks for that. They have all the bits for making up the required lines at Rogers, just up the road from me. It's the inter-tap linkages that are going to be the more challenging issue.

[Snagger]

Some pics of the front tank parts catalogue, the close up of the tap and connectoing links (NRC 185/186) and the brackets with feed and return valves fitted, but no connecting links.

[Snagger]

As I posted on my union question thread, the fuel pipe union threads for the tank and fuel feed valve connections are 1/2"BSP. The return valves have 7/16"UNF threads. I have yet to make up the fuel lines, but have a local source for the parts.

The retun valves have been properly fitted to the brackets, now that I have found suitable nuts, and the plunger switches have been fitted to the bracket top member to select fuel guage sender unit automatically with valve selection. I used brake/reverse lght switches as these are £8 each compared to the £18 for the specified switches. The mounting holes needed drilling to a larger diameter, but otherwise it was a staraight fit. It'll also be advantageous when in remote areas as a switch can be removed to replace the brake or reverse light switch should they fail, meaning less spare to be carried.

I got the front part of the brackets (acts as a tap handle protector) from Blanchards and the 2 selector stickers (side/rear and L/R) from the Land Rover Orphanage. Craddocks came up trumps by locating the tap handle colars to interlink the feed and return valves. None of the usual gold mines had them (Blanchard, Dunsfold, Orphanage etc) as they were so rarely used. I think LR Orphanage may be getting some from Craddocks to use as a pattern to fabricate more - they had been trying to locate them too as apparently twin tank diesel stups are becoming poular in the SII club so that they can run on vegoil, so I told them that Craddocks had located a dozen or so.

I rebuilt the Superwinch (Fairey type) overdrive this afternoon. I had rebuilt it 18 months ago, but dispite initial smooth running a problem quickly became apparent. The selector lever gained a serious vibration on over-run, accompanied soon by a tooth-meshing noise. The OD was removed instantly and awaited investigation in the garage.

The end float on the mainshaft and output gear were excessive (approx 1mm). Stripping and rebuilding indicated no missing or damaged parts, but the float persisted. Shimming the rear end of the mainshaft eliminated the mainshaft end float, but had no effect on the output gear. The output gear is retained by the mainshaft, so this pointed towards the thrust bearing between the two. It transpired that the new bearing supplied for the original rebuild had one incorrect thrust washer - one should be approx 1mm thick, while the other is nearly 3mm thick (with a bevel on the inner circumference to allow for the mainshaft's radiussed section change). The bearing had been supplied with 2 thin washers. This has now been rectified, and the OD is now fully refurbished and ready for fitting. Another space in the garage cleared and (potentially expensive) job ticked off the list! Very pleased about it too, as I was wary of shelling out another £7-800 for a Roverdrive.

[grck1]

hi just wanted to say reading this has inspired me to do some to my own landy and proved to the missus that im not barking mad and it can be improved!!

[Snagger]

Glad it helps. If there's any other way I can help maintain marital bliss, let me know!;)

I forgot to mention thet the rear tub is back on, just awaiting final alignment before the chassis hoops are reset and welded. I can now align the bulkhead and sills, which will in turn alow the front tanks to be fitted.

Another probelm that has had its solution decided on is the rear prop shaft. Due to the chassis having 1-ton extended spring hangers and shackles, combined with HD parabolics, the suspension is so tall thet the rear prop binds on the lower edge of the hole in the x-member behnd the gearbox. The options were to:

a) lower the suspension (severely dislike that option);
b) fit check straps under tension to draw the chassis down 1/2" (not a good idea either);
c) cut away the part of the chassis that the prop is fouling (workable, but not ideal on a brand new galv chassis), or;
d) get a custom prop with a slim section where it passes through the rear of the x-member (similar diameter to the male section of the expansion joint).

Obviously, "d" is the way to go, especially as I need to get the front propshaft extended by approx 1.5" (due to the same suspension reasons). There is a propshaft specialist in St Neots (Bailey Morris), not far from me, so that is the planned course of action (the Scorpion and Gon2Far props are good but a bit dear).

[alex]

You must have at least a 5" lift on your truck Snagger. Is it not possible to fit wedges under spring plates to help the angle of diff nose?
Alex

[Snagger]

You must have at least a 5" lift on your truck Snagger. Is it not possible to fit wedges under spring plates to help the angle of diff nose?
Alex

The ront lift will be 3.5-4", 5" at the rear is about right. The rear prop is fouling near its front end where it passes through the chassis' x-member. Wedges would reduce the distance between the chassis and axle and prevent the binding, but they would also take the axle pinion and the transfer box output shaft out of parallel, which in turn will set up vibration in the propshaft, knackering the driveline (had that problem using 1-ton shackles on the old std chassis, which is why I got 1-ton spring hangers on this new chassis at £300 extra!).

The thing is that I don't like wedges - they seem like a bodged solution to me. They also negate the lift achieved by the 1-ton setup. Given the extra weight that the vehicle is being rebuilt with (sills, tanks, winch, jerry can lockers, toughened floor, etc), and the extra weight it would carry on an expedition, I want to maintain as much ground clearance as possible. I'm also wary of fitting wedges to the rear as doing so would lower the back of the vehicle while the front stays high, giving it a very saggy appearance. With the 1-ton rear shackles, it used to sit (on the old chassis and existing paras) at a body angle half way between an MoD 110 and a Wolf. Fitting the full 1-ton suspension with the paras will result in an angle more like the MoD110 (which is the way I like it), but I don't want it low at the back.

The diff nose angles don't need alteration for UJ purposes as the deflection angles on both shafts are still less than that of an 88's rear shaft (especially those modded with Salisbury axles). I won't be a particularly costly exercise, and getting the propshafts modified seems the best way forward as it won't affeact suspension travel, chassis integrity, propshaft harmonics or body angle.

[Mick J]

If the front axle was tilted forward with wedges,could this have an effect on the "trail" setting of the steering,causing instability and reducing the self centering of the steering?

[Snagger]

If the front axle was tilted forward with wedges,could this have an effect on the "trail" setting of the steering,causing instability and reducing the self centering of the steering?

It certainly would, reducing the self centring effect and reducing vehicle stability. It's a common problem when coilers fit a 2"+ lift. It would aslo have no effect on getting the propshaft to reach, and would put the pinion and transfer box shafts out of parallel.

[challisc]

hmm.. looking at my MOD 109 its also got extended hangers front and rear and extended shakles and yet all the diff angles etc are fine. std springs tho the rears need replacing. I wasnt aware there was a diffrence bettween 109 1 ton and MOD 109 suspention setups. just more heavy duty chassis and a 6 pot. hope you can understand why i'am slightly confused...

[Snagger]

hmm.. looking at my MOD 109 its also got extended hangers front and rear and extended shakles and yet all the diff angles etc are fine. std springs tho the rears need replacing. I wasnt aware there was a diffrence bettween 109 1 ton and MOD 109 suspention setups. just more heavy duty chassis and a 6 pot. hope you can understand why i'am slightly confused...

If you have a WD chassis, it will have the extended 1-ton shackles and hangers. There were a fair few CLs which were essentially civilian spec with the standard suspension. Where I am running into trouble is the combined lift of 1-ton and HD paras; together they lft the rear by about 5". This is not causing UJ problems, but the front prop is too short and the rear is fouling the chassis. Standard springs on 1-ton, or paras on std chassis would not be so tall and don't get the propshaft problems.

[grck1]

hi ive got the same problem on my own 109 as it is exmilatry 1 ton chassis fitted with parabolics, it looks great but the prop runs bloody close to the cross member but not quite touching , makes for some interesting vibrations when running. lol . personally i dont find it to much of a problem as they tend to go at about 30mph. i plan to rectify the situation in the future by replacing the cross member with a 88" style one as they do not have a lower edge because they go up and over the top of the prop due to the angle being steeper on an 88"

[Snagger]

Essentially what I was getting at with option "c". You should be able to get over 30mph, unless you're stuck in low box!

[alex]

It`s the way of it with a big rebuild.......The Dominoe Effect. Never mind you come out a lot smarter than when you went in!
Alex

[Snagger]

Started on the 109 at 3pm (on duty for work this morning).

To align the tub properly, i wanted to make sure the sides were square. To that end, I fitted the EvansUK bulkhead removal bar. The bolts to secure the feet need fitting, so I'll drille their holes tomorrow, but the top pads and lwer feet were located and fixed firmly by the seatblelt mountings, allowing the accurate setting of the tub.

The tub is now set perfectly for height, with the radius' crease exactly matching the bulkhead's. Interestingly, the tub is about 6-7mm wider than the bulkhead, but with that split over each side of the vehicle, 3-3.5mm won't show over the length of the doors.

I also held the door sills in position between the bulkhead feet and tub; the bulkhead needs shimming forward quite a bit (about 6mm on the right and nearly 10mm on the left). That'll get done properly next, folowed by fitting the jackable sills.

[Snagger]

You must have at least a 5" lift on your truck Snagger. Is it not possible to fit wedges under spring plates to help the angle of diff nose?
Alex

Here's a picture of the rear wheelarch (remember it's cut to take a Def spat). You can see the extent of the lift by following the bottom edge of the tub back and seeing where its line crosses the tyre, and comparing that to a standard 109.

I have also taken a picture of the rear prop where it fouls the chassis, though it's currently disconnaected at the diff end to prevent damage.

[challisc]

that on hell of a lift!!! Once youve added the rest of the body and fittings it will probly drop about 1"

[alex]

Yeah it`s a lotta lift mate but as you say when it`s fully laden it drops a bit. The usual drawback with big lifts is that if you dont fill the wheelarches with rubber it looks crap and then when you do and are offroading there is more chance of rubbing. I`m sure you`ll work it all out. Good work!
Alex

[challisc]

see what some of them toyota lads do - 4" lift before youve got to start thinking about brake hoeses!!

[Snagger]

see what some of them toyota lads do - 4" lift before youve got to start thinking about brake hoeses!!

I have extended Goddridge SS braided hoses, so that won't be an issue.

[alex]

Snagger if you draw a vertical from centre of rear wheel to wheel arch what what distance have you got from the ground ?
Alex

[Snagger]

The jackable sills are now fully installed. The protrude 30mm from the body sides, so should provide ample shopping car park protection.They have been made to special length to allow for the Defender wheel arch spats. Fitting them accurately requires shimming on the brackets. The brackets are deliberately set forwards of the anticipated position on the inside of the sill bar to allow for adjustment in either direction, with a smalll number of shimms being used on an "average" vehicle.

[Snagger]

The product is good, but the instructions are poor. Here are some pics of the mountings so you can see how to do it.


The first shows the front mount. It sits on the bulkhead mounting bolt after removing the nyloc nut. Washers are used to set the sill in its correct longitudinal position before the nylock nut is fitted and semi-tightened.

The second shows the rear mount. I had to make some spacing shims out of 5mm steel sheet to fit between the steel mounting bar and the sill bracket. The bar attaches to the bracket with 2 M6 high tensile bolts. The bar is attached to the front side of the rear outrigger by another pair of M^ HT bolts through the existing holes near the end of the outrigger. I also added 2 large self-tapping bolts at the inboard end of the bar to prevent it tristing when jacking the vehicle up by the sill.

The remaining 2 pics show how I fitted the centre bars. This is the weak part of the instructions. The problem is that the bar has to be mounted on the front most lip of the centre outrigger, in such a way as not to foul the fuel tank. I set the bottom edge of the bar level with the bottom edge of the outrigger's upper portion and secured it with 3 HT countersunk bolts (not included). This allowed the top bolt hole in the sill bracket to be matched directly to a drilled hole on the bar, however, the bar did not extend down far enough to reach the lower bracket hole. Using more of the 5mm steel, I made a strip that would attach vertically with a row of 3 holes. The top 2 attached this vertical strip to the outboard end of the lateral bar, making an "L" shape. The lower and centre holes attached to the sill bracket.

[Snagger]

Afetr completion of the sills, I took the measurements:

left sill bulkhead to front edge 170mm
right sill bulkhead to front edge 170mm
L sill BH to outside edge 29mm
L side rear wing to outside edge (at rear corner) 30mm
R sill 30mm at BH and rear
Door appertures (bottom along sill from end of rear side panel to door pillar) 1mm difference.

Basically, the tub has been set and the bulkhead has been shimmed and fixed to within 1mm accuracy from it. The sills are perfectly syemetrical and even except fot the fron end of the left sill protruding 1mm less than the rest. It took a day and a half, but was worth the effort to achieve an accurate fit.

Tommorow I will mark up and trim the severed tub floor support hoop tops ready for re-attachment at the correct levels and set the bulkhead at the correct angle by adjusting the steering box support braces. The tub can then go for painting.

[jonnyboy]

Just been reading this post and very impressed with your work.

RE: your over heating problems with the engine, I have a 2.5NAD fitted to my 88 and had similar problems of overheating at motorway speeds. I have a new 4 core rad, an oil cooler and a decent fan fitted but still had the problems.

I have replaced the entire thermostat housing with the one of 2.25 I took out and now it doesnt over heat at all. I now have the problem of plumbing in the heater return hose which I will hopefully solve with a hose tail to fit the blanking plug in the head.


Jon

[challisc]

Ive also got a wee qustion about fitting desiels - as you may or may not know ive got a 2.25 petrol in my SWB, ive found a sutable 2.5na out of a 110 to go in1. however - cooling, ive got an ex mil rad for a petrol fitted - should this cope or should i look into getting some fans or a bigger rad?

[jonnyboy]

Hi Chris

Mine has been running fine for months now with a 4 core rad. I know of people who use a standard rad but would make sure its in tip top condition.

I towed my 109 on a trailer from Gareloch head down to yorshire earlier in the year with it and even on the longest of hills it never went above half way on the temp gauge.

Mine is a sherpa engine and it came with an oil cooler wnich may help it. dont know if they all have them.

Jon

[Snagger]

I have always had a 4 core rad, and after the engine's first rebuild, fitted a brand new gen parts 4 core. The thermostat housing was SIII, but I still had the engine getting close to the red arc (a needle's width of black showing). With the military oil cooler and 2.25 diesel's fan (rather than the smaller petrol fan), plus the new 2" exhaust, the problem should be solved. Time will tell.

A picture showing how the bulkhead was set in vertical alignment to achieve parallel door posts and tub fronts. The steering box bracket bolts to the chassis and footwells were loosened, the bulhead pulled into correct position (taking measurements from tub) and the bolts full tightened. After releasing the rope, the measurements were re-checked and adjustments made as neccessary.

The floor hoops have all been trimmed to fit and just need butt welding in place once the tub has been removed. It is now ready for painting.