No more hybrids any more, no more.... [Archive]

andyb

14th Dec 2002, 10:26

<redneck accent>Ermmm sweet rig dude</redneck accent>

OK, I got a bunch o'questions :)

Are you gonna replace that X9 with another/a real winch?[duck...incoming flame] :) Or you just gonna go without?

I'm guessing that there are twin snorkels cos you've got two carbs....interesting....most people run the RR air box and a single snorkel.

And lastly IMHO that cage could do with some reworking. I've personally never liked front hoops that mount to the bulkhead, better off running right down to the chassis outriggers.

Oh and how comes it's all nice and dry and sunny and stuff where you are...it's been peeing down here, so I've been couped up in the workshop all day :icecube:

Gareth

14th Dec 2002, 11:16

Winch
A real winch like the Husky on the 90 ?
I only bought it for playing & trialing, so it can do without
Snorkels
will probably be coming off, they go straight onto the SU's (K&N's on the top of them), I will either do without or make something a little neater
Cage
I'm not happy with it either, I will probably take it down to the outrigger
Nice & Sunny ?
it's too cold here to rain !!

andyb

15th Dec 2002, 01:53

A real winch like the Husky on the 90 ? Erm, was hoping for summat with Warn in it name :yellowgri

Cage
I'm not happy with it either, I will probably take it down to the outrigger Good :)

it's too cold here to rain !! I wish! :) Spannering in the cold I can handle,....raining forget it.

Gareth

15th Dec 2002, 09:43

Posts by 3 different people, but over 50 views
Are there a lot of Hybrid "Lurkers" ?

hingmy

15th Dec 2002, 13:14

Took the ugly beasty out to play today. As the title suggests err... went well. No winch, no cage, fairly standard MT tyres, no lockers: just an appropriately heavy right foot when needed. Tee-hee.

hingmy

15th Dec 2002, 13:22

... just like to add: Oh and 3.5 litres of loud petrol power not 2.5 litres of asthmatic diseasel.

Alan H

18th Dec 2002, 12:41

Yes lots of Hybrid lurkers, me included!

bib

19th Dec 2002, 01:27

Hi
I'm a newbie not a lurker.
I've got a 90 hardtop hybrid self built with 3.9 inj. LT95 box, centre mounted series 3 pto winch similar to foers set up. lpg converted (self fit), tdi 300 front axle, 4 pin and v8 shafts rear axle, internal rear cage series 3 bulkhead and dash.
It's geared for about 110 mph and does 105 uphill over saddleworth moor m62 i.e. out pulls renault meganes. Beats mates 4.2 90 both on gas. Used for serious greenlaing and my Q car at weekends and wifes shopping car/school run through week.
paul

hingmy

19th Dec 2002, 02:24

Bib,
C'mon mate pics please. Am particularly interested in this centre mounted winch arrangement. Had thought about this, since I can't justify the money and space that two winches take.
Go on gis' a clue.

bib

19th Dec 2002, 03:23

Nah then,
the winch set up ummmmmmmmmmm.
This represented about 75 + hours as I made 3 versions before the current satisfactory one. It will pull forwards and backwards and the other week the pto pulled 2 fixed together 90's over big troughs and ditches with at least 2 wheels each off the floor at times.Using a 110+disco anchor.
I'm not going to make this too easy as I want you to think about what you are doing. If you can't engineer properly and I say this with respect then please stand down from the task for safety's sake. Bear in mind the forces ( relatively low on electric I suppose??? wimp winches) involved.
wait for the flames!!!!!!!!
Needless to say welds and procedures have to be good.
Let's have a little game.
My first attempt was down the outside of the nearside chassis rail.
Who can tell me the problems encountered then ?
paul

hingmy

19th Dec 2002, 05:59

At this stage I'm just sounding people for ideas to prod the builder with. However I'll hazard a guess that running the winch line outside the main rail is going to create some interesting stresses on the chassis as well as fouling things like exhaust exits or suspension components. Are you suggesting that the line would exit from one corner? If so pity the poor co-driver who has to dig it out when you bury that side - not to mention the amount of bracing required by the rear x-member.
Go on gis a clue.

bib

19th Dec 2002, 06:22

Well
mark 1
first of all the winch was positioned between the back axle and the x member. Then go through rear x member, around 2 pulleys, then forwards back through x member on outside of chassis rail and the suspension is in the way. I drilled a hole and sneaked the winch cable just down the back of the coil spring. this gets us to the front suspension. Didn't like the rear idea with the wheels turning so manufactured 4 rollers with bronze bushes to bend the cable over the top of the spring hanger and exit through front bumper outside of left rail in centre of bumper height.
This works but a number of problems occurred.
Any ideas??

paul

andyb

19th Dec 2002, 15:22

If you can't engineer properly and I say this with respect then please stand down from the task for safety's sake. This is good advice. The 'pull forward and backward' winch system fitted to some Ibex trucks is designed in from the chassis stage. The chassis has a lot of internal reinforcing cos the cable runs thru the chassis.

bib

20th Dec 2002, 02:28

Hi
Happy christmas be back in new year ( works computer)
paul

Alan H

20th Dec 2002, 22:47

Must admit, I've thought about a centre winch on mine, but after a lot of serious thought I decided against mainly for the reasons already stated but also that the phrase "bird **** welding" doesn't even start to describe my efforts to stick metal together.

andyb

21st Dec 2002, 01:04

There is a discuss on the Ibex winch setup here (http://www.lrenthusiastforum.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=139331&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) on the LRE forum, if anyone is interested.

hingmy

21st Dec 2002, 01:53

Have just read the therad mention over at the other place. I must admit that when I first came accross the Foers idea I was a bit sceptical about the complications and am now even more sceptical about the idea having had the engineering explained.
Interestingly team Ibex chose to use two 24v winches though the rear is centre mounted - presuambly for balance and loadspace. Having looked at this I can say that the rear winch is mounted in a locker in the cab behind the seats. The cable drops down via a chassis mounted roller/pivot point and then proceeds down the centre line to the fairlead rollers in the back x-member. This seems like a remote mounting version of a lot of peoples rear winch systems.
Initially I will only be able to afford/justify one winch. Would people on the whole regard a rear or a front mounted winch to be of more use?

Hill Billy

21st Dec 2002, 04:43

there is an easier way of getting a winch front and back. Do whati have done, got my milemarker h12 winch (a little work on the pump gets more power!), make it demountable from front to rear, takes about 30secs to swap round and on the front its above chassis rails in front of the rad so no loss of appraoch angle, and on rear sits above the towball. I have pull tested it and the winch stalls at 7123Kg's, thats some serious pulling power believe me!

Bird **** welding? Turn the bloody welder up or turn the gas on!"!!!!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!!!"!!

Mike

Highway_Star

21st Dec 2002, 05:29

Steve, if you recall, the system described above is pretty much what Mike Evans had/has on that flying machine 90. (2.5 petrol with automotive engineering head, cam etc, damn thing can easily keep up with a 3.5 Range Rover!) The back and front mounts were of his own design, but there's some bloke up Inverness way makes them now, and the hydraulics were down by some agricultural plant place near me. Worked stonkingly well last time I saw it in use (Drumclog removing Dunc and I from a bog). There's also the security aspect of removing the winch from the vehicle. The Milemarker is not a heavy unit to move either.

hingmy

21st Dec 2002, 13:30

No offence Pete or Hillbilly, but after the Optima challenge this year I definitely do not want a Milemarker. While the line-pull is impressive they're not a quick piece of kit. Okay in a recovery situation speed is not at all important, but in competition its a very different matter.

Highway_Star

21st Dec 2002, 15:00

Do it properly ( dedicated pump and matched motor ) and the H12 will respool and outpull any electric winch. I watched a hydro board 130 with H12 on the front pull it's companion and itself out of real trouble, then respool it's cable in well under a minute.

The thing is that speed is nothing without control, and the mighty Warn might be fast for the first couple of pulls, but let's see it do that all day every day. Unless you're carrying serious batteries it just don't do it. Consider this, you don't see professional winch users using electric winches on the whole. all the BT/Leccy Board/ Agricultural / Recovery wagons I've ever seen are either hydraulic or mechanical PTO driven winches. I guess though for these competitions where short pull speed is the winner then maybe it's the way to go, but where work and lives depend on it, then no.

hingmy

22nd Dec 2002, 00:54

Okay we're going round in circles. Pete, we both know each others opinions on this subject. You know what use I have in mind. I know about the battery isssue. This isn't going to be a fitted and sorted job this month but it is on the agenda for this years mods. So anyone watching give me your thoughts and experiences.
PS. In what class would Brian Hartley put a leccy board 110

Hill Billy

22nd Dec 2002, 05:01

Circles? We r going round spagehttie junction with this one, just my last note though! I use my h12 for offroading and agricultural use and many things i am probably not supposed, but when u put a proper pump on and boost the flow and pressure a bit its very quick. In top gear it will respool as quick as an x9 pulling in free cable and it will out pull an x9 in top gear where as the x9 will have slowed and will be warming up! Low gear on my h12 is only used for precision work when u want power at slow speed, but top gear will out pull an x9 no matter how many batteries u stick on it! Just remember u may see electric winches alot and yes they are good, but they won't out last the hydraulic competitors and when u r in competition if ur winch gives up ur up sh*t creek in a barbed wire canoe. I have done a few competions with my h12 and its very very impressive, i had an electric winch before and i'd never go back to them.

BUt you are obviously a fan of electric and i can see why! It doesn't mater what winch u have, if the user doesn't like it then u'll never be anygood with it! Buyy what your happy with and then u'll get on with it well and thats when winning comes proable!!

Happy winching

MIke:band:

barneyrubble

23rd Dec 2002, 09:52

Hybrid Lurkers , Yep that's me .
I've just started building a 100" hybrid :p

bib

2nd Jan 2003, 01:33

Hi with reference to my above posting. The 1st problem is the length from fixed point i.e. pulley to winch drum. This is known as the fleet angle i.e. the angle the rope presents to the drum. Apparently it should only be 1.5 degrees max at 90 degrees from your drum centreline. This is to ensure good even spooling. This figure calculated out gives a fixed point about 20 ' away hardly possible to mount your snatch block there then. So the 1st point to bare in mind is the distance from snatch block to winch wants to be the maximum available.
paul:dunno1:

bib

2nd Jan 2003, 01:46

Having had 2x 8274, a capstan winch, a pto winch and a tirfor I have obviously got my own favourites.
one episode with a 8274 drained the single battery so low it stalled the 3.5 carb v8 with the winch wire like a guitar string ummmmm
Capstan winch what a wonderful thing that was only let down by it's ultimate power when pulling a bogged 110 out with 2 blocks in the system and still not enough.
Tirfor yes **** slow but longer lasting than any of the others full stop. I have winched myself backwards with this on my own with the range rover in reverse with a jammed throttle. Not safe practice but productive.
Pto no engine no winch blah blah..... no winch except tirfor is any good without a power source. An 8274 can take 520 amps on full pull how big is your battery? As a test you could disarm your ignition and crank your engine whilst timing the period, times this period by about 6 feet a minute and would that get you enough distance out of the mire????
paul