Faulty Track-rod end?!

[BrianH]

Hi everyone. I just put my V8 Discovery through an MOT and it failed for, and I quote, "Split-pin missing from n/s drag link". So I thought, ok that shouldn't be a problem. New split-pin, job done... right?

Unfortunately not. I've taken a look myself, and it seems that not only is the split-pin missing, but the whole track-rod end (I think it's the track-rod end) has snapped off somehow. It doesn't LOOK snapped, but it's missing the pin, bolt and thread which normally go on the end. Take a look at this my pic to see what I mean.

I've not had any problems like this before so I'm a bit blind on it. Does that track-rod end look snapped to anyone else? Will I need to replace the whole thing? If so is that something best done at a garage as I would assume a new fitment would have to be aligned or something?

Advice appreciated.

[toppa]

If you snapped a ball joint/drag link, you would know all about it as the steering would not work,and depending on which one snapped the wheels would point different ways. that one in the picture looks fine to me, they can wear out, ie there is movement similar to a dodgy bearing, they should be able to move like in the picture, the split pint on them goes through the nut and the shaft to stop the nut turnning and coming of, give it a clean and you should see a hole through it to put the pin through.
Hope that makes sence,,,,

CHeers....

[DONNYDISCO]

Hi,brian,
Looks Like Yours Is Later Type Where The Steering Arm Has Ball Joint Taper,meaning That The Track Rod (drag Link !) End Is The Bit You Replace If It's Worn.
The Retaining Nut Is On The Top Of The Steering Arm And May Be Of Self Locking Type,not Needing A Split Pin.
From Pic , Does'nt Look As Though Anything Is Broken,or Missing.
I Have Series 1 200tdi Disco And The Steering Ball Joint Is Of Repairable Type In The End Of The Steering Arm, Recently Replaced In Situ By Me, Bit Of A Swine To Get All The Bits In And Replace Circlip.
Closer Inspection I Would Say,.

[BrianH]

Oh right ok. Well what's got me confused is that the other side has a nut fitted with a pin going through, so I assumed that the same should be on the driver's side. Also the end looks fresh, as if there were something covering it previously.

I'm gonna go take another look now and see if there's anywhere for the split-pin to fit.

I'm still confused on this one though.

Brian

[BrianH]

Ok I've had another look, and I can see now that the reason the other side has a nut at the bottom with a split-pin is because it's mounted the opposite way around to the driver's side.

I still can't see where to put a split-pin for the driver's side one though.

Brian

[toppa]

If the ball joint is a newr style one as donnydisco said, it may not need a split pin, as they can have self locking nuts on them, ie nylock nuts, can you see if this is the case? Maybe be akward but see if you can see the nut and see if this is the case.. Maybe that at some time is has been replaced with a newer one..

Cheers

[BrianH]

I can't see unfortunately. I can see the nut, and there's no grooves cut out of the end of it for a split-pin to go through like there is on the other side. It just looks like a normal nut.

Maybe I'll take it back down to the garage that did the MOT and just ask them what they're on about. See if I can get them to point out where the pin should go (or if it's not needed!)

Brian

[toppa]

Yup i would take it back down to the garage, they do make mistakes, ask them to point out exactly what they mean, there is usually groves cut out of them if a pin is required. Sounds like thye have made a mistake or not been clear in explaining what is wrong with it. Let us know how it goes.... If they are wrong and it only failed for a lack of a pin i would insist in a retest there and then for free......


Cheers

[TEMPL4R]

If there are no slots in the nut, it won't have a pin. There must be some kind of locking device to steering and suspension parts. Nyloc is acceptable IF IT WAS DESIGNED that way. If someone has put a Nyloc Nut on because the split pin has been snapped off, they are entitled to fail because the split pin isn't there. It is down to interpretation I'm afraid.


Your picture is of a non standard part ( a copy), they don't have split pins.


I think I would Pass and advise, as it has a Nylock Nut. If it were a plain nut, then no.


Chris

[TEMPL4R]

Just looked again, that's the offside you've taken.

Look at the other side, ( Passenger) N/S. The front rod is the drag link, the one between the wheels is the track rod.


Chris

[BrianH]

Hmmm. But the other side has a split-pin fitted, so I don't know what their problem is on that one. I could renew the split pin as I have a few spares, but I don't see the point in that...

Brian

[TEMPL4R]

Look at both joints on the N/S they could be confusing the track rod and drag link.

If all 4 ends have either a split pin or a NYLOC nut, then point it out and ask them what they mean.

Take a picture and post it.

Chris

[TEMPL4R]

and it only failed for a lack of a pin

Unfortunately, lack of a pin is a Fail, even if eveything else is OK.

Anyone with any sense would put a pin in, if the hole were there and not a broken pin in it that needed drilling out.

Chris

[BrianH]

Actually it didn't ONLY fail for a split-pin initially, I've had to do quite a lot of work to her. But the split-pin is the only remaining issue now.

I've had another look, and of the four ends three have a split-pin fitted - it's only that one on the one side of the drag link which doesn't. But there's nowhere to fit one on that side, because the nut itself doesn't have any grooves. Would I disturb anything if I undid that nut to see if there was previously a place to put a split-pin? I'm just wondering if someone has fitted that nut as a quick-fix to the real problem. I do have the proper grooved nut and split-pin to fit in it's place if that's the case. I've been reluctant until now to undo that nut because if I'm completely honest, I've never had any experience of steering problems before and as such I don't know what I can and can't touch without then having to do tracking alignment and stuff. I don't want to find myself with mis-aligned steering if I can possibly help it.

Explain something to me though because I'm confused about this. Why is there a need for a split-pin in the first place? What's the idea behind it? Surely it's not there to secure the nut on, because that's the whole point of the nut in the first place isn't it?

Thanks for the advice so far everyone.

Brian

[toppa]

You can undo the nut and have alook, the actuall joint is usually very hard to seperate, so very unlikely it will fall out with no nut on it, if it does fall out there is no problem, to adjust the steering you have to loosen the clamp around the rod and either srew in/out the joint from the steering rod, just dont do this. If there is a place for the groved nut and pin put it on. Hope that makes sence...

CHeers

[TEMPL4R]

Anyone with any sense would put a pin in, if the hole were there and not a broken pin in it that needed drilling out.

Chris

I mean a TESTER with any sense, saves paperwork and is no great problem to do.

Chris

[TEMPL4R]

You will only alter the tracking if you adjust the rod between the wheels. The Track Rod.

If you alter the other one, The Drag Link, it will alter the steering wheel centre position. It will not be Straight and will not turn as far one direction as the other.

All nuts need a locking device of some kind. Nowerdays it is Nyloc or Interference Nuts. Plain nuts can come loose with vibration. Split Pins, Locking wire, Nyloc Nuts, Spring washers, Shakeproof washers, Lock Tab/washer, etc are all there to counter the loosening. It is a safety factor.

Split Pins are particularly good because the nut can barely move when the pin is fitted.

Take it back and ask them why, in their humble opinion, the Nyloc nut is not a sufficient locking device. They are fitted to most stering joints we fit now. Just because it has 3 Split pins does not mean it has to have 4. It came with a Nyloc supplied, that is sufficient.

Chris

[BrianH]

Ok. Well what's the difference between a nyloc nut and a normal nut? Is there a physical difference that I should be able to see? Because it just looks like a normal nut to me.

I'm just wondering whether the previous owner had a snapped pin and, because he couldn't be bothered, maybe he just fitted a standard nut?

I'll have to confirm whether it's a "nyloc" nut or a normal one if I can. It'll help when I take her back down the garage.

Brian

[Madoobri]

A nyloc nut has a nylon insert in the thread that when tightened won`t slacken off easily ... see pic

[TEMPL4R]

A Nyloc nut has a raised part on the top. If you look in it, there is a ring of Nylon( Plastic) in there. Plain nuts are just a flat nut with threads in.

[BrianH]

Alright, thanks for that both - appreciated. I've had a look and by comparing to the picture I THINK it's a Nyloc type but I can't be absolutely sure without removing it. From what you've told me about Nyloc nuts, I assume that if I did remove it, I'd need to fit a replacement?

I don't have any spare Nyloc nuts, so the easiest thing to do I reckon is take it back down the garage on Monday and just ask them to take a look for me. If it's a Nyloc, then I can argue the point that it should be sufficient as it is. If it's a normal nut, then I'll either have to fit a split-pin and nut or, if there's nowhere for a split-pin to go, I'll have to get a Nyloc nut to go on there.

Thanks for the advice everyone, you learn something new every day.

Brian

[TEMPL4R]

It looks like Nyloc, leave it. You can re use them a couple of times, if you can spin it on with your fingers and the thread comes right through without any resistance, it needs changing.

[BrianH]

Yep I'm certain enough that it's a nyloc to not bother disturbing it. I'll take her down tomorrow for an MOT test and I'll point that out to them before-hand to make sure the tester agrees with me.

Brian