Problems with a 1994 Tdi (Part Two)

[dogsbody]

Well, just brought her back from the MOT. She failed. :(

Failure List: -

Track Rod link to steering box arm worn to excess
Power Steering leak
Nearside rear chassis corroded and holed
Offside and near side outer sill's holed

Warning List: -

Dust covers on shock absorbers corroded
Slight play in nearside front wheel bearing
Inner wheel arch holed

The holes are odd as three of us were all over and under that car last weekend and we'd have noticed them? The hole on the chassis is very odd as all the metal around it is all rock solid?

I can't really ask Barry to help out again as he's already helped me so much with the floor and I don't want to take the mick. Any one have a rough estimate of how much the abover should be to fix? I imagine the power steering fluid leak and the track rod link won't be cheap?

Oh and I took the door panel off to check out the locking problem. There is a plastic ring around the end of the barrel that has snapped. When the key is turned the split just opens up. I'm assuming the scrappy is the best place to get one from unless anyone knows any better?

As always, hugely greatful for any and all help!

Rik,

[poseidon]

Commiserations - my 300Tdi failed MOT last week too. Luckily my fail was only a couple of small holes in o/s outer sill. MOT Garage plated them for £90 and she then passed. I suspect that MOT testers are rather too enthusiastic with their thumping and prising chisels and levers into chasis members to find weak points. I had checked my sills and chassis before presenting for MOT and didn't see any holes or even any obvious non perforated corrosion. On the other hand, I suppose it's better to know about a weak chassis than find out with a catastrophic high speed failure.....k

[dogsbody]

£90! :eek:

I think Barry might be getting another bottle of whiskey! ;)

Thanks for the reply! Glad to hear yours made it though. You are of course completly right about it being better to know. When the floor was holed, I wouldn't even let anyone else in her!

[TEMPL4R]

I suspect that MOT testers are rather too enthusiastic with their thumping and prising chisels and levers into chasis members to find weak points.

If a Tester gets a hammer and chisel out and hits your chassis, tell them to repair it at their own cost.

It is not permitted to use anything other than VISUAL means and the specified CORROSION ASSESSMENT TOOL. It's a small alloy and plastic tool . It should be hanging on the wall near the ramp or pit.

You cannot bend or move sill covers, engine panels, etc. or undo any screws, bolts or clips.

If you cannot see it;You cannot test it.

You can comment on general condition as a Pass and Advise. This is more for our protection, because if there is something we cannot see, at least we point it out and it is on the Computer system straight away. If anything goes wrong behind the panels, we are covered.

Chris

[dogsbody]

Now that is interesting. Unfortunately I didn't inspect the MOT but I don't see how the hole in the chassis has been made by anything else but a pointy impliment and a large hammer! It is exactly the area that we worked on when we replaced the floor so we went all over it.

Just nipped out to take piccies. The MOT inspector must have increased the sil holes hugely. I was under the car all last saturday and there's no way I'd have missed them. They do appear to be fair comment however! Maybe new sills are in order?

[TEMPL4R]

The first is a Fail, within 30cm of the shocker mount.

The rest are a bit dubious. Possibly one near a seat belt mounting.

You have what is called DESIGNATED AREAS.

These are 30 cm from: a Suspension mounting, Steering mounting, Brake Mounting or Seat Belt Mounting. If the seat belt attaches to the seat frame, then all the seat mountings are classed as Belt Mountings.

If the holes are just on the sills, with none of the above components within 30cm, then it is just a Pass and Advise. If he has had a hammer out, point this out to him. He could be one of the "Older style testers"
As you have a seperate chassis, a lot of panels are for looks, not any strength. As long as they are secure, it's a Pass and Advise.

The MOT Test is a MINIMUM STANDARD, not " Would I let my Grand daughter travel in this car?" You have to bite your tongue at times, you cannot fail just because YOU don't think it shouldn't pass.

For example. If the front cross member is rotting, it's not doing anything other than hold the radiator and bumper on, you can't fail it. If it has a tie bar or anti roll bar on it, it fails.

Luckily, I think, the new Computerisation System is weeding out the Rubbish Stations, in a year or so, the dubious ones will have gone.


Chris

[dogsbody]

Cheers for the reply Chris. It's going back on monday to let their 'welding guy' have a look at it. Depending on what he says, it'll get sorted or be off to Barry's cap in hand! Unfortunately I obviously only have 7 days to get it back for the free retest!

Does anyone know if the steering problems are lightly to be a big job? I suppose the leak depends on where it's coming from but is the track rod link easy to replace? I don't even know if they can do it. They're only really a tyre/exhaust place.

[TEMPL4R]

The leak is "Usually" the seal on the drop arm shaft. It is a Pig to get off, and if you don't tighten it properly, they come loose. If it is a slight leak, clean it up and dry it out, it might stop long enough to re test. It must be a reasonable leak to fail it, a slight dampness is advise.

Rod ends are simple to do, just undo and screw out. Break the taper joint with a whack on the end of the arm, they fall out. If it's one that has the joint in the drop arm, you do that when you do the box seal.

If they only do tyres and exhausts, they probably will struggle with the box. You need a hydraulic puller for the arm.

Some of the lads find it cheaper to get an exchange box and arm. Ask some of them, they will give you ideas on prices, as I do my own boxes.

Chris

[discomadness]

excuse me for butting in, but is it just me or do those holes look like they've been well bashed in ? sorry to say it but if i was in the mot bay and i heard the tester smacking lumps out of my baby with his "corrosion assesment tool" i'm be smacking lumps out of him with my "facial brusing tools" i know they are allowed to prod your joy with the little plastic thing but whacking the thing to bits is not on.

[TEMPL4R]

Considering the Tool weights about " Bog all", it's to give an indicator of the thickness of the metal, " Listen to the sound ".

If you hear anything other than a tapping or scraping, stop the test.
Ask why they need to use such force, and suggest VOSA inspect their handiwork.

It is your property and they have no rights to destroy any of it. If it is corroded you can tell straight away by the noise. ( try tapping an empty bean tin, then a piece of new metal, it isn't rocket science) Testing for sills inside is by pressing with the fingers, you cannot move the carpet.

Chris

[dogsbody]

:p

I was actually pacing up and down nervously in the the shops over the road while the MOT was going on. Probably just as well really! As I've only just got the car, I really want to find out and fix all it's flaws, but I'm not sure I could cope with watching someone knock seven bells out of my baby, and paying them to do it!

I may make a few 'comments' when it goes back on monday. ;)

[TEMPL4R]

I advise people to watch the test, if they don't know the Tester. I think I am a fair Tester, if it warrants a failure, it will get one. If it meets Standards, it passes.

Also, ask Dave Hughes and the other Testers, it is hard, especially when you first start, to check for the minimum standard, not what you think is correct.

We actually failed our Service Managers car on Thursday, due to a lower ball joint.

He is a Tester, but it is deemed bad practice to test anything you own, so I did it.

If you buy a vehicle privately and the name on the MOT is the same as the Vehicle Documents, or the seller, point it out.

Chris

[dogsbody]

Here's a slightly better picture of the chassis hole. As there was no hole at all before it went in, he can't possibly have managed this with the described tool can he?

[TEMPL4R]

If it's badly bent at the edges, or shiney metal edges,no it can't be the proper CAT. It is a very light tool.

Look at the Sealey tool site, they have them there. About £8 I think.

If you tap and the metal flakes away and leaves a hole, that is a fair test. It is corroded.

Anything else or great force isn't a fair test.

Chris

[TEMPL4R]

The VOSA approved tool is SEALEY part number H1MOT.

Get one and check your own pipes and chassis. If you can make a hole with it, it will fail.

Chris

[dogsbody]

There is no way he made the chassis hole with that!!! Unless he used the handle edge and whacked it with a lump hammer!!!

Still, the theory must be that he'll have done that all over. If those are the only holes he made then the rest must be pretty strong.

Still reeling from posiedon saying that a small hole cost him £90. Monday could be, 'amusing'!

[si_guru]

Why does everbody blame the MOT Tester because their car is old and rusty and/or badly maintained???

[TEMPL4R]

Probably for the same reason we get blamed for THEM not putting water in the washers and getting a Fail, I suppose Steve.

[Lacy]

Looking at the photos and the areas around them and, considering the delamination evident in the steel around the damage, I would think it's entirely reasonable that these holes could have been caused by scraping/tapping. consider how difficult it would be to create a hole in sound steel with a hammer.......you could hit it as hard as you like till the cows come home and you wouldn't hole it.

As for the 30cm rule, I thought it was not just the areas mentioned earlier but any load bearing body/chassis member.....which could certainly include sills as they are likely to be within 30cm of body mounts and/or A/B/C post. It doesn't have to be a hole either,......it can fail if there is no hole but the area is sufficiently weakened by thinning of the metal/delamination. Ultimately, when considering the degree of weakness caused to a sill, it's not an exact science but, if you can put a hole in it, I would class that as seriously weakened. The hole, as you know, is only the tip of the iceberg as far as corrosion is concerned. The strength of the steel for a good distance arouind the hole is likely to be seriously compromised.

[TEMPL4R]

It is surprising how many holes you can have and still pass. Don't forget, an MOT is to MINIMUM standard. Landrovers and other chassised vehicles are a bit different.

You can have a hole on the n/s bukhead, fumes and pouring water in. Pass and Advise.
Same thing O/S, Fail, the brake Master cylinder/Servo mount is there.


Wheel nut missing...? Fail
Fit wheel trim....? Pass, we cannot remove the trim.

Seat belt caught in door lock, damage to strap..? Fail
Same thing, rear seat with a child seat attached by the belt.....? You know it's been damaged, we can't remove the child seat to check the belt, only what we can see...Pass

Front crossmember holed, if the radiator bolts to it, Pass. If a Tie bar is to it, Fail.

Battery hanging off, rubbing on wires near your carb... no fuel leaks......?...... not a testable item. Advise about the problem

Car with holes in inner wing, Fail. Landrover...?.. Suspension is on the chassis, Pass

Exhaust covered in paste and bandages..? If it's secure and doesn't leak, Pass.

Rubber Mount on exhaust missing, but tied up with strong wire and secure..? Pass, doesn't say mounts have to be rubber.

Fan belt loose..? Not a Testable item.. UNLESS it is on a Diesel and drives the Exhauster on the alternator or vacuum pump for brakes, then a Fail.

Corrosion is the biggest problem, how do you decide the extent? You cannot remove covers to look, how thick was the metal when it was made, how thick is it now?

Hole by your feet..? Nothing within 30cm?, Pass and advise you have a hole.
Seat belt attaches to the seat frame....? Fail 30cm rule applies to the seat mountings.

A Clas Mercs have covers most of the way down, how can you tell what is corroded? You can't.

The rule is: If you can't see it, you can't test it.

If a car passes its Test, you don't get complaints,
If you buy it straight after it's had a Test, you get complaints "how did it pass in that condition". It's a no win situation at times.

It isn't an easy job, but we do our best.

Chris

[Newsreader]

Why does everbody blame the MOT Tester because their car is old and rusty and/or badly maintained???
:stupid: Sooo true ...

[dogsbody]

Took it back today and they put it on a ramp and said that it's the steering box that has gone. That's where the power steering fluid is leaking from. Does this sound right? They quoted £400 for the part alone. But I know I can get it cheaper than that. Land Rover Supermarket in Speke have just quoted £246 plus £115 fitting inc VAT. Before I sign it up though will this be right? I'd hate to pay all that money out and it not fix the problem.Also they can't do it until the 3rd of Jan. So much for my free re-test. :-(

[poseidon]

I suppose you've just entered real nightmare territory with that. If you do get a pass after £450 or so, at least you'll enjoy some time driving a really great motor, but it's a painful intro to the world of the disco. It's worth checking out breakers yards (sorry, salvage services) on internet to see if anyone is holding a s/h steering box - admittedly unlikely, but worth 10 minutes on Google or 247spares.co.uk or some of the other on-line dealers. I've sourced used parts from them before at keen prices and with warrenty....good luck - you need some after this experience.....Keith

[dogsbody]

Tell me about it! If I hadn't wanted a Discovery for so long then I might be questioning whether I was just throwing good money after bad. Still, in for a penny! At least now I must know the vast majority of her 'warts'! And once these are all sorted she should be okay for at least a short while! Someone on here said that there is no such thing as a working Land Rover. Just projects in different states of completion! I think I know what he means! ;-) As it's going into a Land Rover specialist I'm goint to ask them to look at the fuel problem too. Why do I think I'm not getting out of there without a £700-£1000 bill?! Good job I only paid 2k for the car!