Morocco

[bernieg]

Fed up with the usual fortnight in Spain, sat on a beach doing the lobster impressions, fancied something different. The we saw the Trailmaster adverts for Morocco/Sahara safari. Having never done anything like that before was wondering if anyone on the forum has ever been. If so was it good, what where conditions like. The glossy's only show you the good bits. Any advice greatly appreciated, anyone willing to to show off their holiday snaps would be great. You can either reply directly to this post or get me on my email. Please be as blunt as you like, we want to know the ups and downs, we dont want any surprises!! Particularly intersted in the the camping, we do have the option of sleeping in the back of the Landy. Is a 110 big enough for 4 adults or should we consider taking 2 vehicles.
Thanks in advance to all those willing to share their experience.
Cheers
Bernie.
www.freewebs/bernieg (http://www.freewebs/bernieg)

[The_Boy]

Bernie Hi

I have never been on one of these, really due to cost but I have been all round Spain in the 110 with the whole family. Have done it for the last 5 or 6 years and it really is fun. If you dont mind doing the mileage then the Tabbanes desert is a must, we have been 3 times now, camp on the cost where it is a little cooller and travel inland for the offroading. This year we are going to Portugal for a change. I could go on for ages about our trips in our 1989 110 but you may not be interested. However if you would like to hear more and some tips of where to go ect i will only be to please to send info on routes, camping ect.

Hope this helps

Boy

[ROB 110 HICAP]

Have been a few times on bikes (see avatar). Recommended for good offroading, but a lot has been tarmaced over last 10 years. Search for morroco on here and find many good threads on it.

[Cannonball Bob]

As a general rule I'd allow one vehicle for every two adults, (even a 110)
We're prepping for a similar exped in the Autumn and the spares/toolkit alone fill the load space in a Disco.

[bernieg]

If you don't mind I would really like to know more about your trips, ie routes/camping etc. Also very intersted in the bad bits so that we can be as prepared as possible, need to know what we need for vehicle, what the living conditions like etc. We have not signed up for the Trailmaster one yet, so we are open to other idea's. If it is too much for the post here then by all means use my email.
Cheers
Bernie.

[Cannonball Bob]

Bernie, you've got mail!

[The_Boy]

I wrote this just after our first trip to Spain, it will give you some guid to how to get started.http://www.orrp.net/spain.htm

I see you are not to far from me and if you needed more info on routes, camping and palces to go we could always have a pub meet at the weekend or something like that.

Boy

[bernieg]

Great idea about meeting up. Check your mail
Cheers
Bernie

[ROB 110 HICAP]

Save your money, don't go with trailmasters! Use the money instead to have more of your own spares etc. Its safe and generally friendly, speaking french helps. Many mountain and desert pistes are still excellent. The Michelin map of Maroc is actually pretty good and all we used. Since then I have bought a few more maps from http://www.themapshop.co.uk/morocco.htm and good info here http://www.sahara-overland.com/country/maroc.htm and ask for recent info here http://www.africa-overland.net/index.html

[Devon-Rover]

Hi.

I haven't been with the Trailmasters but did go in october last year with the LROAC.
The route was

from landing in cueta we went through the town and headed towards the moroccan border. We all managed to get through in an hour and half. (all 15 odd landies)

We went on to go through Tetouan onwards towards Chefchouan. From there we continued to Ouezzane and then after visiting the roman remains at Volubillis We continued and spent the night at a campsite in Meknes.

Day 2.

We started and headed towards Todra gorge.

We went through Timahdite, and Boulojoul. and we were onwards towards Ifrane. We were now starting to climb up through the Atlas mountains. We continued on towards Kinifra and then we started to drive off road for some of it Up to imichill which includes some stunning mountin scenery at 7 - 8.500 ft. We had a late lunch at Imichill as we decided to push on towards Todra gorge.

We went basically off road through some amazing off road tracks which wend their ways through the hills. and finally go to todra gorge where we stayed in the Hotel jasmine.

Day 3.

We continued on and went to through Boulmaine Dades and onto Look At dades gorge. Most of this being road work and not very exciting. After spending the time admiring the view and drinking mint tea we headed to the other side of Boulmaine dades and stopped at a campsite. which was more like tourist holiday camping park.

Day 4

On this day we went across the Low atlas mountains on towards our final destination of Zagora. The mountains scenery was amazing And with really high up mountain passes with stunning views too boot. This is still all rough track, so proper Land Rover Territory. The route took us to Knob Where we went by road to Zagora.

We then spent the rest of the day looking around zagora and getting hasseld to go and look in vearous peoples shops and to go buy a carpet. lol.

Day 5

This was heading towards Merzouga. about 170 miles ENE of Zagora.

This was a good day where we were going to drive over some of the Paris - Dakar Rally route. We would be stopping part way across as there is a random Auberge in the middle of nowhere next to a few small dunes.

this was great from slow bits in climbing the odd mountain road from driving over huge flat salt pans. There was some sand driving and also getting shaken to bits on the Desert Corragations.

Day 6.

We continued onwards towards Merzouga and to where we were staying at the Nomad palace. At the foot of the Erg Chebbi dunes. Again like day 5 we were on similar terrain.

Day 7.

This day Vince Took us Desert Driving in the dunes. and also to the fossil shop. This was great fun driving up and down the dunes. Practicing our recovery skills on those who got bogged down in the sand too.

Day 8.

This day we were off and was heading towards the magnificent city of Fes. We went north going via such places as Erfoud, Errachida. We also went and had a look at the ZiZ gorge. We went on from the to Rich to Midelt and on to Ifrane. Here we went to the Ceder Forest and saw " Le Grande Cedere" or big dead tree TBH. and we also went to see the apes that inhabit the forest. We then continued ontowards Fes.

Day 9.

We spent this day exploring Fes and in particular the Medina. Which is a maze of little streets shops and stalls selling every thing from mobile phones to Camel heads.

Day 10.
This day we set off and headed towards Cueta again and the busy border. we went Via Sidi Kamcem on to Ouezzane and back through Chefchouan and Tetouan. We finished by going through the border and getting the ferry back to Algerciras.


The whole trip was amazing the scenery was good. The locals all very friendly i do speak a 'petit' amount of french that helps. very warm day time temps but the weather does vary but mainly the sahara side of the Atlas mountains it was hot. What more then can i say than a trip of a life time and i want to go again ASAP.

[AJC]

Hi,

I've been 4 times one of which was with a guided tour group. Enjoyable as it was I much prefer my own planning and not being dependant on anyone else.

Paying to go with a company won't hold any major surprises for you.

My last trip is briefly outlined here (http://www.landrovernet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20501&highlight=morons). There's quite a few photos in the photo section.

You'll really enjoy it.

AJ

[Spanish Bob]

As has been said - dont waste your money on a tour.

Get out there on your own or with friends.



Oh and by the way some of the best off roading you will ever experience is in Spain. The "usual fortnight" you refer to I imagine is YOUR usual because I can tell you its NOT ours.

[Cannonball Bob]

As has been said - dont waste your money on a tour.


And what about if things go horribly, horribly wrong, what then?
Isn't it comfy to be able to turn to someone and say "Righty ho, start earning your wages...."?
I appreciate a little hardship and overcoming of obstacles is all part of the fun, but surely the value of having some paid back up can't really be measured except by the unlucky few.

[bernieg]

Thanks guys for all your advice. I am even more convinced that Morocco is the place to go. I know the best way to do it would be to organise myself rather than a tour, and I may well do that in the future. But for now, as this will be my first trip I must agree with Cannonball Bob. It would be nice to have that backup just in case the s**t hits the fan!
Cheers
Bernie

[ROB 110 HICAP]

get written confirmation of what they would do if you have a minor or major mechanical breakdown or medical, that require repatriation of your vehicle. Will they tow it through Morroco for you or dump you in the nearest town? Having said that big towns have good garages and little places have good bush mechanics....I saw them with the head off a jeep cheorkee once! I fixed a hole in my sump with araldite.

[Ben_J85JTY]

I have just booked a place on the LRO adventure club trip to Morroco in October. We looked at trailmasters, but it was nearly double the price of the LRO one, and the routes are similer.

Someone had said that the LRO one was a lot more driving than Trailmasters, but having got the full itinary (SP) today, i think its about the same.

All I have to do now is get the vehicle ready! I will be starting a blog stle thread later this week with all the details of how the resoration of the 90 goes.

[Cannonball Bob]

get written confirmation of what they would do if you have a minor or major mechanical breakdown or medical,

We're looking at a well-known exped company (not T'masters or LRO) for September of this year and have alredy raised with them what is and isn't covered. It appears they aim to return all vehicles to main-land Europe, from where I personally would expect Mr euro-AA to take over if required.
I agree a self-planned trip is ok and largley more of an adventure, and I'll probably do this in fuutre, but as a first land-based journey to this part of the world, part of my reasoning was this:
Although it is no doubt possible to cover every angle one's self, and figure a way round every problem, how much would doing so eat in to what is essentially a holiday? Also, good relations with locals/Customs etc is essential and not something you can just turn up and expect if they've never seen you before, surely?
For me having someone who can look at a leaky radiator and say "Hey, that's no problem, I know this bloke in the next village who can fix that" is better than pondering the pros and cons of sitting there fixing it yourself wasting a day in the middle of no where in the process, or going looking for help and wrecking the wagon in the process.
It's like the plumber's bill that says:
"Hammer rental: £5
Knowing where to use it: £250"

For info we're looking at an intinerary where you travel in pairs, with a tour-company opening vehicle and chase car several hours either side of you. Sounds like the best compromise for what we want.

[bernieg]

For info we're looking at an intinerary where you travel in pairs, with a tour-company opening vehicle and chase car several hours either side of you. Sounds like the best compromise for what we want.

Hi Bob, I like the idea of travelling in pairs, any chance of letting us know who you are going with, you can always email if you prefer, rather than post a reply.
Cheers
Bernie

[AJC]

Oh and by the way some of the best off roading you will ever experience is in Spain. The "usual fortnight" you refer to I imagine is YOUR usual because I can tell you its NOT ours.

I agree with Bob. Living there for 3 years, we really kicked the backside out of 'off roading' in the whole of the Andalucia region.

AJ

[Spanish Bob]

get written confirmation of what they would do if you have a minor or major mechanical breakdown or medical, that require repatriation of your vehicle. Will they tow it through Morroco for you or dump you in the nearest town? Having said that big towns have good garages and little places have good bush mechanics....I saw them with the head off a jeep cheorkee once! I fixed a hole in my sump with araldite.

As Rob says, check the small print. You can buy insurance that will medivac you out and take your landie home. That doesn´t mean they a tour operator will do the same. At the end of the day its horses for courses, but Morocco is quite civilised.

I just think it boils down to one question: What am I paying for? if you understand and like the answer to that question go for it.

[toiletduck]

Should be booking flights for a trip out to the Atlas Mountains tomorrow for a trip at easter - will let you know what it's like :D :D :D

[billy4x4]

We went with http://www.impalaadventures.com 2 years ago and had great fun. Its always handy to have back up if things go wrong. If we can sort out family commitments we would go again:)

[bernieg]

Already checked out the Impala site, they are quite expensive (£1650) and you still need to get there. I know you get the training weekend in the UK and a couple of nights accommodation, but that is very steep. Have spoken to the Trailmasters guys, they carry spares, very clued up guys, they have been doing it for 20yrs. We really fancy doing the Draa valley expedition, its a 2000 mile trip, 1600 miles of which is off road and goes further in to the sahara than the other trips. The cost is quite good and they get very good rates for the ferry to Bilbao, which is not included. Haven't signed on the dotted line yet, so please keep the great advice coming. As the sahara trip is still a little way off, we needed to do something, so we are off on a 9 day trip to the Pyranees in the Autumn. Along with about a dozen other Mad Landy Owners.
Cheers
Bernie
www.freewebs.com/bernieg (http://www.freewebs.com/bernieg)

[Cannonball Bob]

I'm reluctant to say one operator is better than another since this a publically read forum, however, we've gone for Impala.
Looked at several and just got a better feeling from Impala than from others, especially having had face-to-face with them on a UK day.
Costs vary slightly but we figured there's more to it than just getting the lowest quote, and the tour guide costs are only part of a larger overall budget anyway.
Bottom line is you never know until you get out there and give it a go. One person expectations can be totally different to another's.
"There was too much driving" from one person could easily be "We wasted time going shopping" from another.
Pay money, take choice, regret it there after and whinge forever. ;)

[Ben_J85JTY]

I am afraid I agree with Cannonball Bob, you pays your money you take your chances!

As stated above I have chosen the LRO route, a decision taken mainly on cost, but also other reasons such as the fairly varied itinary, the fact that the support vehicle is with you from the ferry in Portsmouth to the desert and back again, and silly as it sounds, it will be all Land Rover drivers!

I am certain that whoever you go with you will have an excellent time, and I certainly plan to, but all I would suggest is you as each company to provide you with a basic ininary, and also assess how much they are provideing for your money.

I am going to be paying;

£725 for 2 people for the trip, including 2 nights accomodation.
£630 for the portsmaouth Bilbao ferry
£130 for the Spain - Morocco ferry.

A guide price for the rest is between £3 - 7 for camping and £21 - 45 hotels.

[Cannonball Bob]

We're paying a little more (and not the price on the website by the way!)but it includes both ferries and all accommodation (combination of hotel, campsite and wild camping) except that used during the transit through France and Spain on the way down.
Unless I've read it really wrong we have to fork out separately for:
Fuel for the car
Fuel for us
Insurance (various)
Tolls
Cheap tat from the souk

£130 for Spain to Morocco seems a bit steep. :(

[billy4x4]

I'm not sure about this year but when we went with impala it included all ferry costs therefore all we have to pay for was fuel about £500 ukps and two camps sites on the way down and return to Morocco.
Neil and his team drove down with us but we could go at our own pace. When in Morocco you get a daily route map to follow so unless you want to, you was not in a convoy.
The only time you was in a convoy was driving in the desert. We wild camped in the desert for 4 nights which was followed by a nice stay in a hotel with a swiming pool which was very welcome.

Billy 4x4

[Ben_J85JTY]

Unless I've read it really wrong we have to fork out separately for:
Fuel for the car
Fuel for us
Insurance (various)
Tolls
Cheap tat from the souk

£130 for Spain to Morocco seems a bit steep. :(

Thats about all we have to pay extra for too as far as I could see, I will beintereded to see the prices for the ferry, but I am assuming that the money may include a little "Diplomatic Pursuasion" to hurry us through. At least thats what I have read anyway.!

[bernieg]

One thing has become apparent from all your replies, its not a simple as you first think. The prices vary somewhat, and you are definately right....You pays your money and you take your chances. I am still edging towards the TM one at the moment. The tour I am interested in involves a lot more off road and wild camping than all the others I have seen, not going for the souks and shopping, it claims to have 1400 miles of actual off road driving. The support consists of a fully equiped 12 ton DAF truck and 110 Land Rovers. I am being quoted...

Safari = £600
Portsmouth - Bilbao Ferry = £420 (Vehicle/2 people/cabin)
Cuerta Ferry - £120

The above does not include Fuel or accommodation. The accommodation will be camping (Wild and some camps).

But before I actually book I will be having long chats with the 3 main operators.

Cheers
Bernie
www.freewebs.com/bernieg (http://www.freewebs.com/bernieg)