Veg oil conversion

[glenn]

Has anybody on the forum done a twin tank conversion for veg oil use, can they recommend a kit ? any problems, benefits ?

[nexus990]

Hi,

I've not done a twin tank system but I do blend SVO with diesel and everything works well. Power is good, mpg fine, no smoke and starting is good too. I've used it for quite some time and so far no problems or issues. Winter is a good test as the oil thickens with the cold but if you get the right blend it should be okay.

Regards

PT

[westsussex4]

I was thinking of tipping in veg oil. About a 50/50 mix, without any alterations. How would that go or would it.
Roy

[Snagger]

50/50 produced engine surgine at medium rpm in my 300Tdi, but it idled and ran smoothly at high rpm.

[nexus990]

I wouldn't advise going 50/50 straight away. I started off experimenting with various mixes. First off I started with 10 to 1 and then increased to 10 to 2 and so on until I got to about a 50/50 mix. The fuel pump started to struggle with the viscosity at that point so I backed off down to a 43% mix. A 43% mix means that I put 28litres of diesel to 20litres of veg oil.

I have found slightly more power from the engine and I contribute this to the increase in pressure at the injectors due to the higher viscosity. MPG remains the same and the engine runs very smoothly. Of course this is not to say that every other vehicle will be the same. My TD5 has been rechipped to 192bhp, blocked of EGR, exhaust and air filter mods too.

Try adding just a small amount first and then increase the dosage.

PT

[Backs4more]

Thats interesting as the general concensus was that a TD5 would not run with Veg oil....just goes to show that if you have the balls to try it, anything is possible :) Now then, I am sure I can run my TDi on water...hehe

[G4 90 IN BLACK]

hi all...

nexus, how long have you been putting veg in the td5?

i thought this was shockingly taboo! :eek:

any time i've tried researching this, all i've found is whitenoise or tumbleweeds.:rolleyes:

i did get as far as reading a post on another forum of a td5 on 50/50 that suffered injector problems.

don't know if it was the veg though, may of had problems without the veg!

nice to see someones given it a shot.

good luck, keep us posted

pj....:)

[pjd1001]

I have a friend running a 200tdi 110 1993 on a 50:50 mix with no probs whatsoever.
I'm waiting to see what happens to him in the winter before I follow suit with my 1992 200tdi 90 though.

Keep us posted on how it works out.

[glenn]

Just waiting for the customs registration forms before I start pouring anything anywhere !

Found veg oil at about 36 p per litre put tax on that and it works out about 83 pence a litre, not a massive saving I know, but it does give flexibility makes you less vunerable to crude increases and saves the planet !!

[buzz]

Best way to go using Veggie oil is as has been suggested, increase percentage of oil slowly, run it till its nearly empty, if no problems then refill increasing the oil percentage.
Keep doing this until you find the optimum percentage.
Usually winter can cause problems and you may have to find a "winter mix"
or just run on Diesel in the winter.

The mixing with Veggie oil is required to increase oil viscosity.

Another option if you have the time is converting waste vegetable oil into Methylester or biodiesel.....see my signature....;)

[eliott]

I have an old 2.5TD does anyone have any experience of running one of these on a veg/diesel mix? and if so what sort of ration gave the best results

cheers

[Carl]

Just waiting for the customs registration forms before I start pouring anything anywhere !

Found veg oil at about 36 p per litre put tax on that and it works out about 83 pence a litre, not a massive saving I know, but it does give flexibility makes you less vunerable to crude increases and saves the planet !!

Where did you find veg oil at 36p/l? Runs around 54p/l in Asda and other supermarkets

[glenn]

I live in Manchester there are numerous asian supermarkets, 20 litres of rapeseed was £7.20 last week.

[Timus]

I have an old 2.5TD does anyone have any experience of running one of these on a veg/diesel mix? and if so what sort of ration gave the best results

cheers


I have been running 50/50 for a while now.. no problems so far.

[DerbysRed]

Anyone run a 2.5D on veggie oil?

[Timus]

Anyone run a 2.5D on veggie oil?


Actually my last post should have read "I have been running 'a 2.5 D on' 50/50 for a while now.. no problems so far." .... so the answer is yes :-)

[DerbysRed]

Have you noticed any degridation in power?

Whats the capacity of a 90 fuel tank?

[mikeljones]

I have been running a RR 2.5 turbo on 100% veg oil for about a year now without any major problems. The vehicle is fitted with twin tanks, filters and and heat exchangers to pre heat the veg oil. The trick seems to be in making sure the veg oil is clean, this is very important if you use old cooking oil. Smokes a bit on start-up then runs clean. Slight increase in power and the VM diesel runs smoothly.

[thebear843]

So, do most of you fill half the fuel tank at the petrol station and then fill it up with veg oil when you get home.

Or, do you physically mix it all up yourselves somehow, before putting into the tank?

[thestaceys]

:) Wow, I thought this was a myth...is it legal? :)

[Mogwyth]

:) Wow, I thought this was a myth...is it legal? :)

Yes but you need to register with Customs and Excise to pay the duty on it.

[mapeart]

Apparently the CAV/Lucas rotary injector pumps dont take too kindly to Veg oil. They are supposed to wear out pretty quick unless the oil is pre-heated. Dont think there is much of a problem with the linear (bosch) pumps.

[mikeljones]

Registering with customs is a must if you dont want to loose your pride and joy.

With regard to mixing I used to pour the veg oil in the tank then put the diesel on top but I think you can do it either way as they seem to mix fairly easiliy. You can see what it mixes like by mixing some in a veg oil bottle then see how clear it is. They do not blend perfectly but it seems to be good enough.

A friend of mine in Scotland reduced the mix to 33% oil and 66% diesel in the winter.

Personally I prefer the dual tank approach and have a 25 litre outboard tank in the back of my Range Rover. Unlike many others I use the auxiliary tank for veg oil and the main tank for diesel. The reasons for doing this are as follows.

A lot of garages will not let you fill tanks inside the vehicle from their diesel pumps.
The orginal fuel circuit never becomes contaminated with veg oil, sadly some oil does have dirt in it.
In the winter the veg oil is heated with the rest of the vehicle.I also use two filters and a pre-heater in the engine bay. The diesel tank is used to run the vehicle while the engine warms up. After that I flick a switch and go onto 100% veg oil. If I need more than 25 litres I can carry additional Jerry cans in the back of the vehicle.

Job done and it works like a treat.

[Thermostadt]

This sounds like something I absolutely have to take advantage of, so let me get a few things straight first, if no one minds.

I put ten litres of diesel in my tank on the way home from work. When I get home I put in eight or nine litres of vegetable oil… and that's it. No changes, tweaks or alterations?

Why doesn’t everyone do it?

One question – there’s lots of different vegetable oil, is there a preferred kind or do I just go into a shop and buy the cheapest rapeseed oil I can find.

For information – I have a 200TDI 110 (1991) and understand the need to involve the taxman.

[mapeart]

I think most people cant be bother installing the 2 tank system or farting about going through the hassle of declaring the taxes etc...

[Carl]

Rapeseed oil is the recommended type. Yep just pour it in.

[Thermostadt]

Thanks Carl,

I’ll go and buy a few litres this afternoon and chuck it in the tank.

I think for the wellbeing of the site owners we should assume that everyone is fully intending to notify Customs and Excise about this – just to keep it legal!

[Thermostadt]

I just thought I’d give a quick update on the veg oil thing.

A couple of weeks ago I stuck 6 ltrs into my 1991 200Tdi 110. This probably made up about 30% of the fuel in the tank. I experience no side effects at all. There was no smell and if anything the car seemed to run a little better.

I now run about 50% veg oil to diesel mixture. Although last week my gauge was in the red, so I popped into Salisbury’s and picked up 9 ltrs of their cheapest veg oil and poured it into the tank. I then drove 5 miles or so to a fuel station where I stuck in 9 ltrs of derv, so I was running almost 100% oil with no ill effects.

I’ll raise the oil/ derv ratio in the hot weather and reduce it in the cold.

I use Sainsbury’s vegetable oil at 54p per ltr, which is the cheapest I’ve found. It is a blended oil made up of some rapeseed and some other stuff. I do nothing to it other than pour it into the tank.

[Andyv1.2]

Me too, same stuff from Sainsburys, I was getting some shopping in last week and figured that I would have a go and see how it went. 6 liters into a tank about 30L full, so about a 20:80 mix. I poured it in and let it settle overnight. My morning drive takes me straight up a steep hill which is normally a struggle with a cold engine block, the morning after I added the veggie oil it seemed a lot easier. I will have to retest this when I have run down the tank and refilled with the same ratio Diesel:SVO.

The difference being that I am running a 90 with a Td5 engine, I'm not sure if the increased viscosity will give me problems with the fuel pump (linear v's rotary?) that would not be present in the 200TDi so I don't know if I'll take my experiment further. The full tank with the additional 6 litres got me almost exactly 300 miles.

[Watto]

Very interesting thread. So is anyone running a TD5 with Veg oil that can give an time tested opinion please?

[Thermostadt]

There are two issues with using vegetable oil. Firstly I am sick of being a slave to the man and happy to save money… a lot of money. Secondly, I am happier with limiting the environmental impact by not burning fossil fuel.

Without wanting to clog up the boards with political moaning I have to say that for the life of me I can’t understand why anyone would have to pay duty on cooking oil that they put in their car. Are we not meant to be taking steps to reduce carbon emissions?

This has proved so successful that I’m thinking of cutting out Sainsbury’s all together and getting my oil from the Chinese takeaway that’s down the road. I need to set up some way of filtering all the bits out of it because I don’t think bean-shoots will be good for the fuel pump. Then I’m just going to pour it into the tank.

In the summer I think I’ll run a near 100% mix and in the winter I’ll run 50:50 because of the issues of the oil thickening up.

Sorry, I can't help with the TD5. I'm a 200TDi 110.

Disclaimer
I fully intend to make sure all my fuel duty is paid!

[buzz]

Using unused vegetable oil has it's problems as it is but using WVO straight and 100% I'd be a bit wary.

I haven't heard about many people using Waste vegetable oil in thier engines.
Apparently using vegetable oil as is can gum things up.

I would definatly recomend using fresh vegetable oil but either mixing with diesel or preheating it.
Problems with the viscosity.

Waste vegetable oil however can be converted into biofuel or better known as Biodiesel very easily, I have been doing it for close to two years now and have ironed out all the problems I had.

If you're interested, in my Signature, I have a couple of links worth visiting one is a thread I started, with pics the other is a wvo and vegie oil fuel site.

[Thermostadt]

Hiya Buzz,

I read the biodiesel stuff you’ve got as your signature during the biodiesel thread because I thought about setting up my own plant, but I was put off by not really having the space to set this kind of thing up. That’s why I settled on the idea of using neat oil.

However, I take your point about using second hand oil and will, at least for the time being, stick to Sainsbury’s own.

I was concerned about the viscosity of the oil in the winter being a little too much for my car, but hopefully watering it down with 70% - 80% diesel should keep it runny enough.

I’d love a pre-heater, but at £400 it’s not something I’m ever going to own.

[buzz]

With a bit of thought and maybe some DIY you could probably make your own preheater, I'll have a look around and see if I can post you some links.

You just have to plumb it in before the fuel filter......

[candpdoyle]

Hi Guy's

I run my 2.25 d on a mix of wvo and diesel and while it does not run as well as it does on a clean oil mix it is so much cheaper :eek: that i generaly stick to it with the occasional tank of super diesel to clean out the injectors... it is very smoky in the morning on a 50/50 mix but clears as soon as it is warm...

Probably will be running on fossil through the winter though as it can take a while to start when it is very cold:D

Chris

[buzz]

This link may help too,
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

Still trying to find where I saw the in line heater setup....:(

[buzz]

Hiya Buzz,

I read the biodiesel stuff you’ve got as your signature during the biodiesel thread because I thought about setting up my own plant, but I was put off by not really having the space to set this kind of thing up. That’s why I settled on the idea of using neat oil.

However, I take your point about using second hand oil and will, at least for the time being, stick to Sainsbury’s own.

I was concerned about the viscosity of the oil in the winter being a little too much for my car, but hopefully watering it down with 70% - 80% diesel should keep it runny enough.

I’d love a pre-heater, but at £400 it’s not something I’m ever going to own.

Mixing with 80% Diesel should pose any problems either.

As for space, if you saw where I produce mine you'll have a laugh.
Talk about confined space.......:D

[buzz]

Got it :yay:

here's the link for the in line heater DIY may I add.

http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=5686

[mikeljones]

Me too, same stuff from Sainsburys, I was getting some shopping in last week and figured that I would have a go and see how it went. 6 liters into a tank about 30L full, so about a 20:80 mix. I poured it in and let it settle overnight. My morning drive takes me straight up a steep hill which is normally a struggle with a cold engine block, the morning after I added the veggie oil it seemed a lot easier. I will have to retest this when I have run down the tank and refilled with the same ratio Diesel:SVO.

The difference being that I am running a 90 with a Td5 engine, I'm not sure if the increased viscosity will give me problems with the fuel pump (linear v's rotary?) that would not be present in the 200TDi so I don't know if I'll take my experiment further. The full tank with the additional 6 litres got me almost exactly 300 miles.

If you dig into the various sites on the Internet that cover this subject you will find that if you increase the percentage of veg oil too high then the engine management system tends to go beserk, or so they say. Truth be known I doubt if anyone has plucked up enough courage to try more than 30% or more. If you wanted to try it then a second test tank would be the way to go so you could quickly switch back to diesel if you run into trouble.

I have been running my VM 2.5 turbo for a year now and the main problems are that the injectors soot up if you switch to pure veg oil at too low a temperature and fuel filters clogging up due to small particles of solid fat, or solid carbon (*** sausages) so if you are using used oil you must separate and filter it before it goes in the tank. I must try and remember that one day.

Finally the greasecar heater looks interesting and would take less time to heat up than the coolant heated variety or you could use a combination of both.

Required one brave soul with a Td5 to put our ideas to the test, no liability accepted of course :) .

Have fun fun folks.

[Thermostadt]

Interesting link, Buzz.

They seem to make something very simple seem very complicated; I take some of their warnings on board though.

The trouble with this is that there doesn’t seem to be a definitive answer. Some sites are doom seers whilst some don’t think there is a problem. What I do is take them all with a pinch of salt.

One helpful bit of advice I’ve taken is that waste oil has a potential harmful acidity, which is something I hadn’t thought about. You can alter it and indeed turn it into biodiesel, but using it filtered isn’t too smart.

Pre-heating the oil sounds like an unnecessary complication during the summer, particularly with a 50:50 – 70:30 mix, but in the winter it’ll be essential. I’ll probably look to reverting to derv during the winter months, if for no other reason than it’ll help clean out the engine.

I’m lucky that the 200Tdi fuel pump is likely to be able to cope with an oil 15% more viscous that derv, so I’m happy to pour it straight in.

[buzz]

Incidently my engine is a 300TDI.
Not dissimilar to the 200tdi.... very forgiving when I had problems with my biodiesel in the beggining.
Just change filter and drain tank and refill with DERV.

Keep things simple as possible is the way to go.
The acidity will not do any favours to the fuel system.
It attacks alloys.
Biodiesel is alkaline.

Yes indeed the heating would be required in the winter months using SVO.

The added bonus of course is the biodiesel will clean out the fuel system from all crud and resins, it is a solvent.

After using Biodiesel for the first 800ks I beleive the fuel filter should be changed.

[vzh7gk]

If you're worried about used oil in a TD5, you could always buy an old Merc and just pour used oil into the tank :eek: - anyone see 5th Gear last night?? (My, how that's one has gone downhill...).

Must have a word with my local chippy... ;)

Cheers,

[Thermostadt]

I saw the thing on 5th Gear last night about the Merc and everything I’ve read, and most of the facts I’m sceptical of, say don’t use untreated old oil. Even filtering it isn’t enough because of the acidity. I thought about pouring old cooking oil into my 200Tdi, but have gone off the idea completely having read more about it. I’m sure you can run a diesel on anything, but the long-term damage probably wouldn’t make it worthwhile.

I do agree with what the spiky haired bloke said about the hypocrisy of having to pay duty on it.

There’s a lot of coverage of using non-fossil fuel in diesel cars and I’m wondering how long it will be before the Treasury gets fed up. I can see an increase in the police dipping tanks and I wonder about duty being added to oil at source.

[Emlyn]

Im reading this with big astonishment... But really glad to see it works, when you guys see Veg Oil, is that any vegetable oil? (sunflower, grapeseed etc)

Got a V8, so can stick to parafine :p but might be interesting to know for next purchase..

Anybody knows anything bout longterm consequences?

[Thermostadt]

Emlyn

Websites refer to vegetable oil, but I’ve read that rapeseed oil is the oil of choice. I use Sainsbury’s vegetable oil that is a blend of rapeseed and other oils and it seems to work fine for me. Plus it’s only 54p per litre.

Oddly it’s improved engine performance and it copes with hills a lot better.

Time will tell if I am causing any long-tem issues, but my assumption and the assumption of others is that I’m not.

[westsussex4]

I am going to start adding a bit of that Sainsbury's veg oil but I suppose I will have to get the necessary paperwork from Customs&Excise :(

[vinnie@mac.com]

Therostadt

Don't you get funny looks going into Sainsburys and buying 70 litres of veg oil?

[Stephen]

Therostadt

Don't you get funny looks going into Sainsburys and buying 70 litres of veg oil?


send misses in to get it

[inismeain]

Has anybody on the forum done a twin tank conversion for veg oil use, can they recommend a kit ? any problems, benefits ?
Who can recomend the best Landrover for a vegetable oil conversion?
ot a series 3, not a Freelander, so which one is best?

[freebe]

you still have to pay tax when running on vegie oil i got cought and it cost me 1 grand fine so be carefull

[Stephen]

Has anybody on the forum done a twin tank conversion for veg oil use, can they recommend a kit ? any problems, benefits ?

Not sure he has done it yet but my neighbour was talking about setting up a twin tank. The 'other' tank only would have needed to be a small (3 litre?) modified ATCO lawnmower tank which would be used to carry normal diesel.
The twin tank system was only so he could run a higher percentage (or even 100%?) of SVO during winter months and still be able to cold start the engine.

At the end of journey the fuel would be switched over to diesel, so in the morning the system was ready primed with diesel, once engine was up to temperature the fuel would be switch onto the SVO tank.

The SVO supply would also be passing through an exhaust spiral wrapped heat exchanger:confused:

[Thermostadt]

you still have to pay tax when running on vegie oil i got cought and it cost me 1 grand fine so be carefull

As I’ve said before I think it best to assume that everyone is either paying duty on the oil or is intending to pay tax. I’d hate the site owners or a poster get into trouble by condoning the defrauding of HM Customs.

I am curious about how you got done and why you got the £1k fine.

Did you get dipped?

Did you offer any defence or is it just a straight-off fine?

[buzz]

Not sure he has done it yet but my neighbour was talking about setting up a twin tank. The 'other' tank only would have needed to be a small (3 litre?) modified ATCO lawnmower tank which would be used to carry normal diesel.
The twin tank system was only so he could run a higher percentage (or even 100%?) of SVO during winter months and still be able to cold start the engine.

At the end of journey the fuel would be switched over to diesel, so in the morning the system was ready primed with diesel, once engine was up to temperature the fuel would be switch onto the SVO tank.

The SVO supply would also be passing through an exhaust spiral wrapped heat exchanger:confused:

Sounds like the perfect setup to run on SVO....;)
You only need to run for about two minutes with Diesel to get things warm and again to flush the system when stopping.

[vinnie@mac.com]

Not tried it my self as I go with Biodiesel as not messing with the systems need. But take a look here (http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/) here (http://www.veggiepower.org.uk/qshowmuch.html) here (http://vegburner.co.uk/heat1.htm) or here (http://www.dieselveg.com/)

[westsussex4]

I rang C&E for the forms today but I want to pay the lower rate 27p as paying the higher wouldn't be much of a saving.

[inismeain]

Series III Land Rovers seem to come with Lucas pumps. Freelanders have weak fuel lifters. There is a lot of confusion abroad about the need for twin tanks etc.
Can anyone advise which Land Rovers are best suited to using SVO?
If not the series II or the Freelander then what?

[Stephen]

Series III Land Rovers seem to come with Lucas pumps. Freelanders have weak fuel lifters. There is a lot of confusion abroad about the need for twin tanks etc.
Can anyone advise which Land Rovers are best suited to using SVO?
If not the series II or the Freelander then what?

200 or 300 tdi engined ones? disco, rangie, defender

my neighbours is a 19J engined defender using SVO.

[glenn]

I started this thread so i thought i would give an update on my situation, i cant afford the twin tank system at the moment, so i have experimented with varying percentage mixes straight into the tank. not wishing to overdo things, mixes have been small quantities ie max 2 gallons. In my 200 Tdi i stopped at 60/40 as the engine became sluggish. i settled for 70/30 which seemed to run smoothly and also appeared to make the engine sound quieter ! Although initial start up is a little lumpy until warm.

I am now back on 100% diesel until I get round to doing the plumbing.

Incidently, I have access to small quantities of waste AVTUR or Jet A1 fuel (basically parafin) can i use this to thin SVO and just declare it as a fuel substitute to HMC in the monthly returns ?

[adafish]

i've started today, put 44ltr diesel in and then brought 5ltr from shop dropped it straight in...What next?

[adafish]

just spotted on ebay, a veg oil conversion that runs the oil thru the expansion bottle that way warming the oil up......its in LAND ROVER PARTS, lookin into it me self.......i think the tank replaces the expansion tank.

[glenn]

Using the expansion bottle would rely on the thermostat being open, thus delaying the warm up, i think making a coil(microbore copper) around the heater pipes would give a much quicker warm up

[Thermostadt]

i've started today, put 44ltr diesel in and then brought 5ltr from shop dropped it straight in...What next?

Simple – turn the key and press the accelerator. It’s as simple as that. All I do is pour the cooking oil straight into the tank. It makes about a 50:50 mix.


Oh, don’t forget to ring the tax man.

[red]

was just watching this http://www.jokaroo.com/extremevideos/myth_busters_biodiesel.html

[westsussex4]

Ada
Have you noticed ant difference with the veg oil in it?
Roy

[adafish]

no not really........don't think it made much difference.....will put more in tho justed put £50 derv in....i know that since PORNY tweak it up it goes like a bat out of hell....and the TURBO don't half whistle...

[vinnie@mac.com]

My farther-in-law was telling me about someone he knows runs his Renault van on heating oil not sure if he has done anything to it or it is just straight.

Has anyone heard of this before.

I will stay with Biodiesel for now B100 can be run with derv added. For winter I will add some derv to reduce gelling or an additive if I find one that seems ok.

[westsussex4]

I got the forms from the tax office but its all about producing biodiesel? Might just leave it.........
Roy

[Stephen]

I got the forms from the tax office but its all about producing biodiesel? Might just leave it.........
Roy

Same forms required I gather, someone of this forum posted a link to a website which tells you what parts and details you need to fill in on those form when you are just pouring veg oil into tank as opposed to producing biodiesel from waste or raw.

Can't seem to locate that link right now...

[Stephen]

I got the forms from the tax office but its all about producing biodiesel? Might just leave it.........
Roy


Same forms required I gather, someone of this forum posted a link to a website which tells you what parts and details you need to fill in on those form when you are just pouring veg oil into tank as opposed to producing biodiesel from waste or raw.

Can't seem to locate that link right now...

Here is the link with help on those forms...

http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm

Tax and legal issues

It is not illegal to use vegetable oil as fuel in the UK. It is illegal to use anything for road vehicle fuel without paying duty on it. To pay duty on vegetable oil, you have to jump through a couple of legislative hoops. Here's what you have to do:


Register with Customs and Excise
Keep your reciepts
Fill in a monthly tax return First, get notice 179E and form EX103 from HM Customs & Excise (http://www.hmce.gov.uk/). Fill in the EX103 declaring the purpose of your business as a private individual using vegetable oil as a motor vehile fuel and stating the description as jerrycan(s) marked SVO in porch/shed/wherever. Attach a letter explaining that the oil is a diesel quality liquid fuel produced from biomass or waste cooking oil, the ester content of which is not less than 96.5% by weight; and the sulphur content of which does not exceed 0.005% by weight. Explain that your feedstock is commercial cooking oil and/or waste cooking oil and give the following details:

Vegetable oil is produced from biomass.
Fatty acids are esters, so the ester content is 99% approx.
The sulphur content is 0.002% by weight (see this assay by German vegoil company Elsbett (http://www.elsbett.com/engl/oil.htm)). (Important note: I've only just found the Elsbett assay as the supermarkets refused to provide this information under an absurd "commercially confidential" smokescreen, so I'll be writing to HMCE with these details myself. I'll update this page with how I get on) Remember to give an estimate of your monthly usage: For an individual, this will be small: less than 100 litres. Don't forget to include a contact phone number in case they have any further questions.
The completed EX103 should be sent to HMCE, Mineral Oils Relief Centre, Dobson House, Regent Centre, Gosforth, Newcastle-on-Tyne NE3 3PF.
Every month, you will be sent an HO 930. It's a moderately scary-looking form but filling it is is dead easy. It's detailed in the 179E leaflet:
At the bottom of the list of duty types, make the blank row read: ORR 33589 Biodiesel and then your quantity and calculated duty payable. As I write, duty is 27.1p per litre. Sign and date the declaration, write a cheque to The Commissioners of Customs and Excise, and pop the form and cheque in the post.
Keep your receipts: You're required to keep them for six years. It's simplest if you just keep the paper receipts, stapled together so you have a bundle for each HO930 you've submitted.
And that's it! The forms look opaque but it's not hard really. If you get stuck, Customs' national enquiries help line is open 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday for all general questions on 0845 010 9000 (+44 208 929 0152 outside UK).

[westsussex4]

Thanks Stephen for that info.
Roy

[wil64]

Anyone run a 2.5D on veggie oil?
I have a well used LWB pick up with a 2.5 TD and have tried it on nearly 90% veg oil without problems. Don't know about the long term effects on the motor but I only do it now and again.

[G-Cam]

I have been on 50:50 in my 110 CSW 200tdi for about a month now - if anything its running better!

I'm looking at putting a proper conversion in it now. I have a long range fuel tank to put in and i'm just wondering where I can put a small Diesel tank for start up and purge when I stop.

I want to keep the storage under the driver seat and I have twin batteries in the passenger side so that is not an option.

Has anyone tried any of the kit from http://www.dieselveg.com/

[reedx]

Has anyone tried any of the kit from http://www.dieselveg.com/

I bought one recently but haven't had a chance to fit it yet. Very comprehensive kit with good quality parts. PM me if you like a PDF of the fitting instructions to see what is involved.

[c19noe]

remember now thatsince this summer july i think there is no tax to pay on producing biodiesel see biodiesel forums for fuller picture

[bigal1000@live.]

Hi all, Im new to the landrover world and I am wanting something cleared up...I appreiciate that this is discussed in length throughout this thread but I am wanting info for my own personal situation.....

I am about to buy an E-reg (1988 I think) 2.5td Defender 90. It has 132k on the clock and engine is apparantly solid according to the seller who has been recomended to me....

Has this particular model got a fuel pump that will get into trouble if I use a mix of pump diesel and a mixture of rapeseed oil? I cant afford a conversion kit , just would like to save a few quid and I suppose help the enviroment, so what if at all possible, mixture should I use in this 2.5td E-reg defender 90? Is it going to drop dead after a few months? I have read all sorts of horror stories I suppose on the net about things going wrong so I would appreiciate any help and advice to clear my problem up. I will of course be declaring it and all the usual disclaimer things I have to say!

[Snagger]

The TD is an engine highly prone to cracked heads and pistons, so check it very carefull before you buy. Its Lucas pump is not especially strong, and vegoil will damage in very short order if not heated. You would need a twin tank system to run pure diesel while the engine is cold and purging near the end of the run to prime it for the next cold start.

Welcome to the forum.

[discotec]

so butting in do you just pour in tank?....no processing?

just mix with you own diesal

[Richie_asg1]

so butting in do you just pour in tank?....no processing?

just mix with you own diesal


For up to 50/50 mix - yes. Bear in mind though you will get problems in the winter as it will clog your fuel filter quicker. The better answer is to find a renault or Peugeot fuel filter which has a coolant heater built in. These are the same footprint as the standard CAV units, and can be picked up relatively cheaply.

I would try to find one of these, then add to it by fitting a flat plate heat exchanger. Then you may opt for a two tank system with the valves etc.

Even if you don't go for the twin tank conversion, it will prevent problems with the fuel pump.

[neilmac]

I have a Disco TD5,which I bought recently and it has given me no end of problems with the injectors, it has done 75k miles and the injectors were worn. Various specialists were involved in getting it going. I needed a new lift pump, filters and injectors to sort ot out. When the pump went the mechanic found a load of sludge in the tank he said it matched a defenders tank which he was working on which had the same problems and the owner ran his on veggie oil. The injectors were tested and were worn and would not deliver enough fuel through the power range. I didnt run the car on veggie oil but signs pointed to it running on it. I would be worried about the long term problems it might cause especially on the injectors. However I am no expert

[Lord Croft]

Hi guys - just to add my tuppenyworth. I have been commenting on bio - 2nd generation type - for some time. See entries here on other threads.

My TD5 defender has done 13750 on pure processed old chip oil and is very happy on it - no probs at all unless you class a few seconds on the heater plugs plus a few seconds on the throttle till running smoothly. Processing is very satisfying when the fuel has correct PH and clear - looks good enough to drink - not sure about that one but as it is just rape-seed oil should not be as dangerous as dino-diesel!!!!

[Snagger]

Hi guys - just to add my tuppenyworth. I have been commenting on bio - 2nd generation type - for some time. See entries here on other threads.

My TD5 defender has done 13750 on pure processed old chip oil and is very happy on it - no probs at all unless you class a few seconds on the heater plugs plus a few seconds on the throttle till running smoothly. Processing is very satisfying when the fuel has correct PH and clear - looks good enough to drink - not sure about that one but as it is just rape-seed oil should not be as dangerous as dino-diesel!!!!That's not running on vegoil, it's using biodiesel.

[Lord Croft]

That's not running on vegoil, it's using biodiesel.
It started off as veg oil - old and lumpy!

[MeesterDisco]

Hi all
I am new to LandRovers, having just bought (and loving already) a '94 Discovery 300TDI.:D
I'm very interested in saving some money at the pumps and have been looking through many threads just like this one. In relation to the Customs and Excise thing.... the official wording on their website is this

4.2.1 Exempt producers/users
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
■any biofuel, or
■any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with HMRC and account for duty. However, there are simple record-keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.

The whole document (heavy reading indeed) can be found here (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000205&propertyType=document)

basically it seems to me that if you use a full tank of PURE VEG OIL (and no diesel at all) a week, then you have to register as a biodiesel producer/user
12 gallon tank = 54.48litres x 52 (weeks)= 2832 litres per year

Obviously if you are mixing it 30/70, 40/60 or whatever, as long as you dont use 2 tank fulls a week then you are classed as exempt. You still need to keep receipted records of the oil you have bought and I would presume some photographic record of your mileage over the year.

There you go folks, the legalities of it straight from the horses mouth (hmrc.gov.uk).

I'm going straight to Sainsbury's to buy 10l and dump it straight in !!

WOOHOO - no more "over a quid a bl**dy litre" fuel for me (well, maybe a little every now n then);)

[thebear843]

Welcome to the world of veg oil:)

I guess the only chance of the authorities knowing you are using veg oil is if you get stopped by the police and 'dip tested' by customs and excise.

Of course, you could just keep the most recent receipt for your veg oil purchase, and if challenged you could say that it is the first time you have used veg oil.

Dont see how it could be proved otherwise.

(Not that I would ever do that!)

[vinnie@mac.com]

Hi all
I am new to LandRovers, having just bought (and loving already) a '94 Discovery 300TDI.:D
I'm very interested in saving some money at the pumps and have been looking through many threads just like this one. In relation to the Customs and Excise thing.... the official wording on their website is this

4.2.1 Exempt producers/users
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
■any biofuel, or
■any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with HMRC and account for duty. However, there are simple record-keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.

The whole document (heavy reading indeed) can be found here (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000205&propertyType=document)

basically it seems to me that if you use a full tank of PURE VEG OIL (and no diesel at all) a week, then you have to register as a biodiesel producer/user
12 gallon tank = 54.48litres x 52 (weeks)= 2832 litres per year

Obviously if you are mixing it 30/70, 40/60 or whatever, as long as you dont use 2 tank fulls a week then you are classed as exempt. You still need to keep receipted records of the oil you have bought and I would presume some photographic record of your mileage over the year.

There you go folks, the legalities of it straight from the horses mouth (hmrc.gov.uk).

I'm going straight to Sainsbury's to buy 10l and dump it straight in !!

WOOHOO - no more "over a quid a bl**dy litre" fuel for me (well, maybe a little every now n then);)
My understanding was using pure/ veg derv mix veg oil still incurred duty. To be duty free it had to be proccessed ie made into Biodiesel.

Also read a number of threads where people get coking problems trying to run pure veg oil with doing a conversion.

I would do some more research first.

[MeesterDisco]

My understanding was using pure/ veg derv mix veg oil still incurred duty. To be duty free it had to be proccessed ie made into Biodiesel.



I highly recommend everyone reads the pages on Revenues & Customs website, it is pretty heavy reading but the legalities/duty info is all there.

if you "prepare" the mix at home, you are technically classed as a producer and then you have to pay duty on it all. if you are only a "periodic user" then providing you use less than 2,500litres a year, all you have to do is keep your receipts for the oil you've bought.
job done :cool:

[timcannock]

i have a 96 range rover with a bmw engine ( currently blown ) so if anyone knows of a decent engine !!! , can any one reccomend some one to either help me fit a twin tank veg oil system to my RR , or do the job and the best way to go about it

[MeesterDisco]

if you "prepare" the mix at home, you are technically classed as a producer and then you have to pay duty on it all. if you are only a "periodic user" then providing you use less than 2,500litres a year, all you have to do is keep your receipts for the oil you've bought.
job done

Just to clarify, the "preparing" means if you process WasteVegOil (WVO), by taking used oil from say a chippy or chinese first, filtering/de-acidifying or whatever and mixing with diesel at home or if you have biodiesel manufacturing facilities etc. If you're just buying StraightVegOil (SVO) and glug it in, you can use up to 2500litres a year without having to register. Well, thats how I read it on the HMRC website so i suggest everyone reads it. I'd keep my receipts though, just in case
:cool:

[Pacmajster]

Hi All.
I`m new here.
I am considering to buy a Defender with the Td5 engine and converting it to run on veggie oil.
Here I`d like to share with some stuff I`ve founded about converting it.

http://www.elsbett.com/gb/online-shop.html

http://www.diesel-therm.com/vegetable-oil-kit.htm


Sorry for my english.

Regards.

- Tomek

[disco98]

i run my 98 300tdi on 6 litres of veg to a tenner of white stuff runs great, quieter, livelier pick up and a few more miles.
but my worry is what is the custom man gonna say. anyone know the answer to this.

[Nigel D]

Sounds to good to be true, having a look at rapeseed oil from Sainsbury etc though, unless I am looing at the wrong item its about £1.30 a ltr - thats more than diesel, no doubt I am looking at the wrong item.

Has anyone used rapeseed oil in an automatic discovery 300tdi, any performance improvments both on the road and off.

Nigel

[MostlyMonki]

anyone running a twin tank (with preheaters) with a 300tdi? if so hows it running?

also - just had a look on fleabay, and theres a few people selling WVO pre-filtered to 1 micron.... anyone tried using that as a substitute for SVO now that fresh veg oil is so expensive?

[thebear843]

i run my 98 300tdi on 6 litres of veg to a tenner of white stuff runs great, quieter, livelier pick up and a few more miles.
but my worry is what is the custom man gonna say. anyone know the answer to this.

I wouldnt worry about the tax man side of things. Just buy the veg oil and bung it in. Keep your latest receipt incase you get stopped by VOSA, so that you can say you have only just started using it.

You would need to be using a hell of a lot of veg oil before you needed to declare it officially.

I but my veg oil from the wholesalers, but as its currently not much cheaper than diesel, Ive not bothered using it lately.

[robinhood]

I have a 1994 M 5 door 140,000 miles.
Has a twin tank veg system installed.
Missing head and steering.
Sold as a project but is taxed to end of oct and mot to feb 2010
Solid shell
£500

[wicklowman]

I have been running a '99 TD5 on vegoil for three years with no problems. I'm using a Smartveg kit and I can highly recommend it.
Do not use veg in an unmodified engine. You will be slowly coking it without realising it. Piston rings will get gummed and your engine oil will take a hammering.

Wicklowman

[MeesterDisco]

You would need to be using a hell of a lot of veg oil before you needed to declare it officially.



theres a load of info on the customs n excise website about it. You're right - you can use up to 2000 litres a year without declaring anything

[kieron1999]

i have got a freelander 1999 2L can i put veg oil in that ??

[micheal]

Personaly I won't use veg oil in a 300 tdi auto I did it with mine and unless the engine was super hot then it struggled o set off from junctions when cold was even worse I would use a good supply of bio mixed with diesel that seems to be a lot better now it's on bio then it ever has been on veg oil yep it's cheap but bio is better as if done properly it's thinner then veg oil hence better for the engine

[Nigel D]

Is there anywhere you can buy bio diesel as I do not have space to make my own.

And would a 300tdi Auto Discovery require any modifications to be able to run using bio diesel, I take it is a 50/50 mix.

Cheers

Nigel

[micheal]

Hi there mate google suppliers in your area as long as u leave on barrel over night before use to check for amy sediment you should be fine but before you use any bio products make sure that your sedimenter I's cleaned and a new fuel filter is fitted also check the state of your lift pump.
Some people fit heaters to aid cold start up in realy cold weather I would personaly start off with a lower ratio of bio to diesel to get the engine used to the bio and give it a chance to wash any muck from the tank and lines then steadily increase the ratio of bio untill you hit 50/50 mix and run. I only had problems with my injectors because the prevouis owner of my car ran wvo and didn't filter it properly and after 3 years of owning the car I thought that it would have been fine for my use of bio but gummed up injectors later due to the amount of muck and crap in my tank I've had to stop using it untill i wash out my tank properly. But cold starting on bio in my auto tdi and driving wise it was good

[fastlanetd5]

you onlyneed to declair anything after 2200 letres you mae a year anythng before that is not taxable

[Nigel D]

How many mpg do you get using bio diesel.

And have you ever just used bio diesel 100% with no diesel again if so what was the performance and mpg like again.

Cheers
Nigel

[Nigel D]

I have done some looking up on outlets. When say they say B30 and B100 does this mean the strength of the bio diesel, if so I presume B30 is better for someone starting off.

[micheal]

B30 diesel is the official European STD diesel that is now sold on forcourts like morrisons which is a 5% blend vegoil. B100 is pure bio diesel that has been made from waste veg oils and chemicaly treated tbh for b100 mpg figures I couldn't say as I was running a 50/50 blend in my disco as I don't have any form of heating system in my disco I was going to try and find a heat exchanger or an electrical heater system and run b100 permantly.

[Nigel D]

I won't be be installing a heating system, so I be looking at a weak mix, which hopefully is cheap and econmical to, I don't mind mixing the oil with diesel as long as I can find the right stuff to use, which will not cause all my filters to clog up ideally to.

[micheal]

Veg oil if clean from the bottle from the supermarket won't clog the filters up it's the muck from the tank that can be washed out and clogs the filters up Mann filters make a filter with bio diesel in mind I have one fitted to mine at the moment and it does help the situation with rhe clogging of the filters also clean out the sedimenter also before adding any oils to the fuel system
as it gives the fuel system a good start and helps catch
any muck that can get in there

[micheal]

As for mixes I would use a 20to30% mix of bio to the rest diesel in winter and then in summer use a mix of 80% bio and the rest diesel if your doing alot off miles then the bio is a good idea but if only short journeys use normal diesel as the engine needs to be quite warm to run bio diesel but with them mixes you should gave a problem change the fuel filter regular at first at then down to normal intervals after 3 months of bio diesel and then you should be alright