Which Expediton vehicles and why?

[rbm]

Ok this is spin off from the 300tdi or TD5 thread, but some of the comments on there got me thinking is you are going out into the bush etc. what vehicle would be the best to use, but you must be able to back up you choice with good reasons.

[jkelly]

Thats a very BIG question and I guess the answer lies with what you can afford and want the vehicle for, how many are going and what it will be doing...

2 adults, kids & Overland - Double Cab / Disco
2 people & Overland - 90 / 110 / Double Cab / Disco

Bit more money...
Fully kitted out Disco 3. This is DEFO the vehicle of choice although by the time its kitted it out you are talking £££s. That said, its a nice conversion and gives you an almighty vehcile... Yummy...

[essexlandy]

To be honest it's not to do with if it has 200, 300Tdi or TD5 etc the Tdi's can be repaired in the bush as there basic, the Td5 has all the electrics etc....

it's if it's reliable, thats what counts at the end.

Two people, 200Tdi 110 hardtop,roof tent, secure storage in the back etc... but then again a 300Tdi disco is very, very tempting seen some nice ones converted. Perhaps even a P38 there so cheap and comfy.

If you want the real answer: Toyota Land Cruiser

[mmgemini]

Well I used my Defender 300Tdi 110 station wagon with no regrets.Next year I'll be using the same motor.

The only vehicle that I believe to be on a par with that is the Toymotor VX45 double cab fitted with an Alu-Cab canopy.

www.alu-cab.co.za (http://www.alu-cab.co.za)

[AJC]

People may give their preferences here on the best exped vehicle but other considerations are will it be a one off trip for a couple of weeks, a round the world trip over a year or more? This will have great bearing as to how you kit out your vehicle and at what expense?

AJ

[K&S]

As has been mentioned there are many factors to consider before giving an opinion. When you mention bush where are you talking about. If it's Africa then is it a cross continent type trek or through a country like South Africa where expert help for Td5 type electronics is more available? How old would the vehicle be? The newer the vehicle (e.g. TD5) less liklihood of something major going wrong.

Briefly; the simpler the vehicle the easier the bush repair. I know a true story of a series landy getting a hole in the diff casing out in the middle of nowhere in Namibia. They limped in to a tiny local village (mud huts and the like) only to find a scrapped landy rotting away. Bought the axle from the headman, fitted it and on they went as if nothing had happened.

There are probably thousands of similar experiences of one sort or another; so that's another angle to look at. And no I'm not trying to fly the series flag. :D

What I want to know is where the moderator is? Why hasn't that statement about a T****a L**d C*****r been wiped out?:D :D

[essexlandy]

What I want to know is where the moderator is? Why hasn't that statement about a T****a L**d C*****r been wiped out?:D :D

Very true I'll be going somewhere hot when my time comes.:eek: But to be honest Jap cars just dont go wrong

[K&S]

But to be honest Jap cars just dont go wrong

Takes all the fun out of it. What would we do with our spare time? :D . I've become rather accustomed to smelling like EP90. If I had a Jap car I'd have to add a bottle of the stuff to my toiletries.

[Marc Lurie]

If you want the real answer: Toyota Land Cruiser
I don't entirely agree with you. I think the ultimate vehicle (for me, obviously) is a coil sprung 110 County body (very comfy, strong as nails, great chassis, nice clearance etc) with a 6 cyl N/A 4.5l Landcruiser diesel engine.

I, personally would never go for a Discovery or one of the fancier Toyotas because you can't clean out the inside with a hosepipe. I use mine for work, and I often carry stuff in the vehicle that leaks, drips, or melts, and I need to be able to clean it out easily. The defender and the 'Cruiser are the only trucks you can do that with. I once carried the butchered carcass of a cow (it was a favour for someone, not my idea) in the back of my landy in Mozambique, and that was messy. :rolleyes:

Also, can you really climb into an expensive Disco covered in sand and sea water? Can you really fling a smelly tackle box and a leaky bait box into the back of a Disco? can you really drive a nice, shiny Disco through a rhino thorn thicket knowing, with every screech and scrape that your expensive metallic paintwork is being stripped by thorns?

As has been said before, it really does depend on what type of expedition you will be doing.

Marc

[toppa]

So many factors, how wealthy are you, if you gopt the money than you can have the backup if something goes wrong... THe defender pops up, but maybe that is because it is the one you see regulary doing it, that should say something in itsself...


Cheers

[Lawnmower]

Very true I'll be going somewhere hot when my time comes.:eek: But to be honest Jap cars just dont go wrong

That statement is just not true.

I took out AA cover when I got my first landy, I am on number 3 now. I have never had it towed home, despite various faults it may have developed. In that time I have also had a diahtasu applause, and a Mazda MX5, both cars have left either myself, or my wife or my father in law stranded in various conditions, including heavy snow.

reasons included drained batteries afecting imobilisers or some such, snapped belts/rads exploding, cambelt failure.

(Hindsight would suggest that most, or all, could have been avoided with regular maintainance.)

[nitwit 66]

I didn't know you could put a Landcruiser engine into a 110. Is this very expensive to do?

[sniff my diff]

B,O,B

[discocuzzy]

Been evertwhere in my D3, Tunisia etc..no problem

Prefer my TD5 Double cab though

[rustyrhinos]

Without echoing what has said before...a big par is money..but I would also say a big part is to WHY you are going on the trip and what you consider as FUN. If fun to you is getting to the places in comfort to pull in at a pre-booked hotel to visit the places as recommended by a hitchhikers guide then fine, it is obvious what your choices should be narrowed down to. If you think hitting a ditch at considerable speed is hillarious and a radiator which has no circlulation in the Sahara desert is only a minor issue to be solved with threaded rod then that may also narrow down your choice :)

[discocuzzy]

Sorry mate, not quite getting the gist of your thread to be honest, dont know if your having a pop or not!

Im guessing your saying is it doesnt matter if you spend £500.00 or £20,000 on your vehicle, stay in a 5 star hotel or in a leafy ditch covered in a leaky old poncho...as long as your having fun then its all cool;)

Just looking for clarification as your post seams unclear.

[Marc Lurie]

Been evertwhere in my D3, Tunisia etc..no problem

I've never been to Tunisia, but I guess a D3 would be much nicer in the desert. Better air-con :p

I'd hate to take a D3 into NE Mozambique though. The thorn trees would wreck the expensive paintwork.

It's "Horses for courses". :cool:

[bvudzichena]

I don't entirely agree with you. I think the ultimate vehicle (for me, obviously) is a coil sprung 110 County body (very comfy, strong as nails, great chassis, nice clearance etc) with a 6 cyl N/A 4.5l Landcruiser diesel engine.


Yes!

[bvudzichena]

I'd hate to take a D3 into NE Mozambique though. The thorn trees would wreck the expensive paintwork.

I understand that D3's have improved since I had one...

I'm still not keen on going anywhere where my life would be in danger if something went wrong with the vehicle.

[sasha2001]

Very true I'll be going somewhere hot when my time comes.:eek: But to be honest Jap cars just dont go wrong
Yes they do!!, New v8 landcruiser 70 series, a mining company brought 10 of them one year ago, already 2 NEW engines replace under warranty, my friend works for Toyota, the previous engine( Diesel) had cylinder head problems, they simply fixed them without telling anyone under the guise of servicing it and keeping a bit longer!!! Toyota are good but not neccesarily anymore reliable overall, check any $WD Australian site, you can find horror stories for landcruiser, Nissan Patrols AND Landrovers!!!!!older Landruisers were more reliable than new ones. Sound Familar?

[Marc Lurie]

Toyota are good but not neccesarily anymore reliable overall,

A lot of my clients have had huge hassles with modern Nissans, Toyotas, and Mitsubishis. One client in Gabon has been running a fleet of Nissan Patrols, and they are getting a maximum of two years life out of them before they need replacing as they become too unreliable. When they used the old diesel Landcruiser pickups, their replacement time was over 5 years.

Mitsubishi pickups in the Gambia last less than 18 months, but then there's NO preventative maintenance done on them, and the level of maintenance is "dodgy" at best.

Diesel quality is also a serious issue. My clients in Kolwezi, Congo have to transport their diesel by road from Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania because the diesel available in the Congo screws up their fancy computerised Landcruisers.

[rustyrhinos]

Sorry mate, not quite getting the gist of your thread to be honest, dont know if your having a pop or not!

Im guessing your saying is it doesnt matter if you spend £500.00 or £20,000 on your vehicle, stay in a 5 star hotel or in a leafy ditch covered in a leaky old poncho...as long as your having fun then its all cool;)

Just looking for clarification as your post seams unclear.


Deffo not having a pop, and yup, spot on, as long as you are having fun then its all cool :)

[bvudzichena]

Diesel quality is also a serious issue.

We've been in relatively "civilised" places where - despite being run through a diesel debug and two filters - the diesel still managed to jam the stop solenoid on the diesel pump in the "on" position.

[sasha2001]

We've been in relatively "civilised" places where - despite being run through a diesel debug and two filters - the diesel still managed to jam the stop solenoid on the diesel pump in the "on" position.
Hi ,just for interest, whats a diesel debug? were they using extra filters as well as the car manufacturers ones?
thanks Simon

[bvudzichena]

Hi ,just for interest, whats a diesel debug? were they using extra filters as well as the car manufacturers ones?
thanks Simon

Diesel Debug info here (http://www.dieselsolutions.co.nz/).

As a rule, I always replace the single diesel filter with a twin unit.

[sasha2001]

thanks very much., I drove fromAlgiers , niger, nigeria, cameroon, brazzaville, kininasha, to kolwesi, nodale to cape town and back in the 1980s
The old series 2s coped with paraffin diluted diesel no problem
What proce "progress"

[sasha2001]

Diesel Debug info here (http://www.dieselsolutions.co.nz/).

As a rule, I always replace the single diesel filter with a twin unit.
Interesting!!, made here in New Zealand, there is not a lot of information here in New Zealand, what Brand is the double diesel filter you had in the Picture? Presume it would go in td5?
I have a russian family and I know there is a Steel? unit that helps filter out the wax, parraffin that is in Russian diesel outside the main cities and I understand you can just remove it and literally was out, nexttime I am there for a visit I will enquire, A few of us from New Zealand will do the "Road of Bones" from Magadan to moscow one day visiting my relatives along the way and braving the Roads and russian traffic Police, not unlike those in Zaire as it was when stopped "Donne-moi un Cadeau" , In Russia its lunch money!!!
So any help would be appreciated about this in preparation for this trip
Thanks Simon

[bvudzichena]

... what Brand is the double diesel filter you had in the Picture?

I think they are made by Cooper. I buy them from the MF tractor dealers.



Presume it would go in td5?


It should.

I only use 2.5NA engines for expedition trucks. They don't break.
One day I'll build one with a big Toyota engine.

[Marc Lurie]

I drove fromAlgiers , niger, nigeria, cameroon, brazzaville, kininasha, to kolwesi, nodale to cape town

I wouldn't like to do Congo Brazzaville today... :( Strange, isn't it, how Kinshasa and Brazzaville are so different, yet they're really only about 2km apart across the river?

I've never been to West Africa by vehicle, but I've driven up to Kolwezi from here, and done a heck of a lot of East Africa.

[sasha2001]

I wouldn't like to do Congo Brazzaville today... :( Strange, isn't it, how Kinshasa and Brazzaville are so different, yet they're really only about 2km apart across the river?

I've never been to West Africa by vehicle, but I've driven up to Kolwezi from here, and done a heck of a lot of East Africa.
Yes and Libreville different again, I will always remember changing money in Zaire in french Quel est le taux? du jour(exchange rate) it changed everyday
for US$!!!(very high inflation, Yes bad anough with drunk soldiers stopping you and wanting something and waving AK47s around, luckily Mobutu did not trust them enough to give them bullets!!!

[sasha2001]

I think they are made by Cooper. I buy them from the MF tractor dealers.



It should.

I only use 2.5NA engines for expedition trucks. They don't break.
One day I'll build one with a big Toyota engine.

thanks will investigate further

[Marc Lurie]

Yes and Libreville different again,

Libreville is quite pleasant. I've only spent a few days there, but it mostly appeared clean(ish), well organised, and relatively prosperous.

Kin la (pou)belle indeed. :D DRC isn't my favourite place. I was in Kin, Goma, Kisangani, Bunia etc. in 1994 shortly before Mobuto died. In Goma there were hundreds of thousands of Rwandan refugees streaming in. It was a total mess. Kin was falling apart. No water, no electricity, drunk soldiers rampaging. I went through a few "ville morts" where the place would get completely locked down and all expats would hide for a few days while the mob rampaged through the streets killing anything they could ge6t their hands on.

The last time I went to Kin (2006) it was much improved. Kolwezi has changed dramatically over the past 5 years. It's still a poo hole, but liveable.

[sasha2001]

Libreville is quite pleasant. I've only spent a few days there, but it mostly appeared clean(ish), well organised, and relatively prosperous.

Kin la (pou)belle indeed. :D DRC isn't my favourite place. I was in Kin, Goma, Kisangani, Bunia etc. in 1994 shortly before Mobuto died. In Goma there were hundreds of thousands of Rwandan refugees streaming in. It was a total mess. Kin was falling apart. No water, no electricity, drunk soldiers rampaging. I went through a few "ville morts" where the place would get completely locked down and all expats would hide for a few days while the mob rampaged through the streets killing anything they could ge6t their hands on.

The last time I went to Kin (2006) it was much improved. Kolwezi has changed dramatically over the past 5 years. It's still a poo hole, but liveable.
Yes Kolwezi was hole back then, Kin would be interesting , maybe one day!!!

[sasha2001]

Libreville is quite pleasant. I've only spent a few days there, but it mostly appeared clean(ish), well organised, and relatively prosperous.

Kin la (pou)belle indeed. :D DRC isn't my favourite place. I was in Kin, Goma, Kisangani, Bunia etc. in 1994 shortly before Mobuto died. In Goma there were hundreds of thousands of Rwandan refugees streaming in. It was a total mess. Kin was falling apart. No water, no electricity, drunk soldiers rampaging. I went through a few "ville morts" where the place would get completely locked down and all expats would hide for a few days while the mob rampaged through the streets killing anything they could ge6t their hands on.

The last time I went to Kin (2006) it was much improved. Kolwezi has changed dramatically over the past 5 years. It's still a poo hole, but liveable


Hereis a link to some old photos from the trip with Zaire roads I managed to keep that I posted up on A russian FWD site that I write on sometimes, these russian guys In St Petersburg really do some off roading!!!, Intend to go out with them next time visting family in russia
http://avtokosmos.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=1283

they have expiditions likeLagoda trophy and more mild like:
http://www.ticrk.ru/en/info_14722.html (in english)

[Lady Driver]

I really wanted to contribute to this thread given that I've just read about Kingsley Holgate's One Net One Life expedition into Africa. Kingsley has been doing overland expeditions now for years and has (as far as I know, always used Land Rovers). He would be a wealth of information...

This is where I read about it: http://www.landrover.co.uk/gb/en/about-us/our-planet/our-planet.htm?p=1034

This is the Kingsley Holdgate Website: http://www.kingsleyholgate.co.za/

All of this expedition talk gives me itchy feet!!!

[leeds]

It all depends what you mean by expedition or an overland trip. Many people consider a 3,000 mile trip in convoy in Europe with less then 500 miles on non sealed roads a 'overland trip' To others a weekend in Wales is an overland trip. To me they are LR holidays.

We are going to Spain shortly and have a hotel booked and then will be staying with friends for up to 10 nights. Taking the D2 TD5 as it is a LR holiday. Capable enough for the green lanes etc and more comfortable.

For overland trips of up to 8 months, travelling solo vehicle doing up to 25,000 miles (20,000 on non sealed roads) it will be the 110 CSW 300 TDi. Only 2 seats, everything inside. Roof racks/tents etc are not good news in forests. Have owned it 12 years, I KNOW it has been well mainrained and is reliable. When you are several hundreds of miles from nearest fuel stop/village you need a reliable vehicle.

Which vehicle is very personal decision, depends on number of people travelling, where you are traveiing and for how long

Regards

Brendan

[mmgemini]

I really wanted to contribute to this thread given that I've just read about Kingsley Holgate's One Net One Life expedition into Africa. Kingsley has been doing overland expeditions now for years and has (as far as I know, always used Land Rovers). He would be a wealth of information...

This is where I read about it: http://www.landrover.co.uk/gb/en/about-us/our-planet/our-planet.htm?p=1034

This is the Kingsley Holdgate Website: http://www.kingsleyholgate.co.za/

All of this expedition talk gives me itchy feet!!!

Holgate used Toyotas for the Cape to Cairo trip.

[Marc Lurie]

Yup, Kingsley has used Toyotas and Nissans in the past, but ever since the Capricorn Expedition they've been using Landrovers. They recently announced the latest expedition, Landrovers again, but this time a Disco 3 will be joining them.

[mosebone]

I KNOW it has been well mainrained and is reliable.

The most important point as far as I can see as all vehicles have plus and minus. You learn a lot over a few years owning the same vehicle.
Hope all of you have fun on your trips.
Ian
www.overlandtrombone.com (http://www.overlandtrombone.com)

[Snagger]

As far as the Jap vs LR debate goes, i thought Pete Girling's (Atlas Overland) comment while we we in the Alps was interesting. He said that they get some trips with all Japanese vehicles, some (like ours) with only LRs, and some mixed. He said that the LR only trips have a very different nature to the other trips - you know from the start that there will be some technical problems, but they're not generally a big worry because the vehicles are more bush-repair friendly, the owners know their vehicles better and carry more tools and spares, and any unusual spares are quite easily available, even if they require special delivery. He also siad the nature of the drivers was different - on the LR trips, as soon as anyone had a problem the whole group would stop, the men would all pile out of their vehicles with tools, spares and fluids while the women would often put the stove on for everyone. Almost invariably, the vehicle would be fixed either properly or enough to limp on to the camp site where parts could be delivered or more time spent to conduct a full repair (like the suspension swap on the crippled Discovery II on our trip). by comparison, he said the Japanese vehicles have less failures, but when they do go wrong, it's more catastrophic, needing specialist tools and facilities with no parts back-up down route. He also said that the Jap drivers will tend to leave the fallen behind, any breakdowns usually going home on a recovery truck.

That tells me one thing - have a simple Land Rover with metal suspension and as few electronics as possible. parts will be more easily found, temporary repairs a better possibility, few special tools or facilities required, and you're more likely to gain the sympathy and help of fellow drivers.

I think you'd be hard pressed to beat a Tdi Defender, unless staying vey close to civilisation.

[mmgemini]

As far as the Jap vs LR debate goes, i thought Pete Girling's (Atlas Overland) comment while we we in the Alps was interesting. He said that they get some trips with all Japanese vehicles, some (like ours) with only LRs, and some mixed. He said that the LR only trips have a very different nature to the other trips - you know from the start that there will be some technical problems, but they're not generally a big worry because the vehicles are more bush-repair friendly, the owners know their vehicles better and carry more tools and spares, and any unusual spares are quite easily available, even if they require special delivery. He also siad the nature of the drivers was different - on the LR trips, as soon as anyone had a problem the whole group would stop, the men would all pile out of their vehicles with tools, spares and fluids while the women would often put the stove on for everyone. Almost invariably, the vehicle would be fixed either properly or enough to limp on to the camp site where parts could be delivered or more time spent to conduct a full repair (like the suspension swap on the crippled Discovery II on our trip). by comparison, he said the Japanese vehicles have less failures, but when they do go wrong, it's more catastrophic, needing specialist tools and facilities with no parts back-up down route. He also said that the Jap drivers will tend to leave the fallen behind, any breakdowns usually going home on a recovery truck.

That tells me one thing - have a simple Land Rover with metal suspension and as few electronics as possible. parts will be more easily found, temporary repairs a better possibility, few special tools or facilities required, and you're more likely to gain the sympathy and help of fellow drivers.

I think you'd be hard pressed to beat a Tdi Defender, unless staying vey close to civilisation.


Exactly Nick. That's also my view.

[rustyrhinos]

Very well said snagger, I think that rounds off the topic nicely.

[Marc Lurie]

Yup, Kingsley has used Toyotas and Nissans in the past, but ever since the Capricorn Expedition they've been using Landrovers. They recently announced the latest expedition, Landrovers again, but this time a Disco 3 will be joining them.

Correction:

I spoke with Kingsley's son Ross yesterday. They are taking along three Defenders (two Tdi's, 110, and 130 and a Td5 130) and two new Disco 3's.

The new expedition is being done in collaboration with SA National Parks, and it will be a promotional / educational trip to virtually all of the transfronteir parks. They leave next weekend for Lesotho's Sehlabatebe park.

[Snagger]

I recall reading an anecdote recently, possibly on this forum, about a Defender driver in the Australian outback, near Alice, drawing some criticism from a Jap 4x4 driver about his choice of vehicle and its poor reliability. The irony was that it was the Jap car driver that was waiting for over two weeks in that town for a replacement radiator.:rolleyes: Now, on a Defender, the liklihood is that a leaking rad would be locally repairable, but even if it needed replacement, you wouldn't have to wait more than a few days.

[tony109]

Consider where your going the temperatures and climate.. Also the cultures your driving into.. A flash ...person in their discover 3 should not expect the same reception as someone in an older vehicle. If your simply driving in a group with other 4x4 vehicles you can take what you like.. But you should expect that any vehicle you run, to have problems. How serious those problems are is usually dependant on how complicated or vulnerable the vehicle is.. Mension ECU and any problems you have with this could easily prove insumountable in the field, or simply become a burden you have to live with throughout the trip. If your travelling alone the Discovery 3 would have to be among the most unsuitable vehicles for any serious overland trip.. The P38 rangerover has a terrible reputation for electrical reliability.. just remember, when you're unable to fix your motor, and the local garage man can't either, remember to keep in mind how comfortable the things are..