Expeditionist Vehicle

[Rich_P]

What would you pick as your expedition vehicle if you were to undertake an expedition?

[Satancom]

Has to be defender TDI, although a 200tdi disco is a close second!

[Stephen]

A 101 forward control thanks.


:D

[AJC]

I voted Defender as it suits what I have done and what I intend to do.

Budget is a main factor and not just for the initial purchase of the vehicle.

Depending where you are planning to go, the cost of a Carne de Passage, indemnity insurance and bonds can be quite considerable. Failing that, in some countries the amount of duty payable can be up to 400% of the value of the vehicle if you leave that country without the vehicle be it sold, wrecked or stolen. If no Carne is held a bond may be required in lieu. In that case it may be worth having a very cheap vehicle.

Loads of considerations. ;)

AJ

[TBM]

I've voted series due to my K.I.S.S. mentality.

I'd take a cereal box, gaffer tape, a few jubilee clips and a tub of vaseline so I could fix 95% of all problems..............

[Cannonball Bob]

a tub of vaseline so I could fix 95% of all problems..............

...including any friction between driver and nav. ;)

Depends where the exped was to and how much stuff needed carrying.
Trade off between Defender capability and RR/Disco comfort.

[Landysteve1975]

All depends on where the expedition is to?

I would not really want to take a series across Siberia!!!

[Newsreader]

I'd take a unicycle

[TBM]

...including any friction between driver and nav. ;)


exactly. that's why my navs are always 21 year old nubile blond women......;)

they can't map read for toffee, but very good at stress relief.

[AnalogKid]

A simple choice,I'd just pack up the vehicle I have.

Of course there's a few repairs I'd want to do first...

[adrianandkate]

Any series ie a 109 - preferably my santana as it's comfier and i'm getting older (remember rich - lol. lmao etc). Or a 101 ambulance conversion.
Not planning on going anywhere cold - a mate went to norway for a fortnight in a truck cab series 3 and froze his nuts off (nb tbm - his woman didn't go - no stress relief, or maybe there was, a few of his mates slept in the back too..)

[toppa]

Well it has to be a J**p Chereoke!! :D



As i said to you the other day Rich, get yourself a decent 110, and spend a year or two sorting it the way you want it to suit whatever trip you are planning...

Cheers

[adrianandkate]

Well it has to be a J**p Chereoke!! :D



As i said to you the other day Rich, get yourself a decent 110, and spend a year or two sorting it the way you want it to suit whatever trip you are planning...

Cheers

Are you just looking for trouble bro before you go on hols?;) :D :p

[Rich_P]

As i said to you the other day Rich, get yourself a decent 110, and spend a year or two sorting it the way you want it to suit whatever trip you are planning...

I popped up this poll before thinking much about it. Just a matter of what people in general would take. :)

[nobber]

a series three 109 with a n/a 2.5 motor in.
bullet proof.

[Big Sandy]

I popped up this poll before thinking much about it.

It shows. I was wondering what an expeditionist vehicle was... one that flashes its engine bay at you for a fiver? Hahaha..

Oh! Your serious arent you?

In that case

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa

[TEMPL4R]

Shouldn't it be an Expeditionary Vehicle?

I can't find Expeditionist in my Dictionary.

Chris ( a Mechanicist):rolleyes:

[Rich_P]

Okay, my mistake. Yes, expeditionary. :)

[Rich_P]

It shows. I was wondering what an expeditionist vehicle was... one that flashes its engine bay at you for a fiver? Hahaha..

Oh! Your serious arent you?

In that case

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa

Double standards?

I removed the post because i thought your post was cheeky in the extreme. I did not feel a need to correct my grammar for you, given that there are many times in the past, whereby you have been just as guilty.
I was not writing an essay moreover i was making points of interest, maybe just to me, however your glib remarks were cheeky.


-Quotation from a PM from the staff.

[R0Y]

Double standards?
Fair point well made.

[andyb43]

None of the above!

We are doing a RTW in 2004 TD5 Disco. You never had that on the pole:D

Why do you worry about bush mechanics if the thing never breaks down in the first place. All you need to do on a TD5 is change the oil and filters:D

Iff it dose goe pete tong then it goes in to limp mode anyway.

Referance the electrics & ECU then for the price of a winch and plasma rope you can buy a rova com and open a Fedex account

[TEMPL4R]

But if the primer fuel pump packs up, on a TDi you can make the lift pump diaphragm out of pretty much anything that stretchs a but, inner tube, for example.

A TD5 is going nowhere.

chris

[andyb43]

LOL.

the problems my friends have had is that all the land Rovers that have been used on expeditions are old and bound to break down and require shed loads of mainanance because the Carnet is cheaper.

why not buy a 2-3 year old that has all the warrenty niggles sorted and proved its self reliable in the first place.

as for the fuel pump lol DHL or fedex in the max 3-4 days. you can temp repair a fuel pump if you are a member of the A team :D vertualy all expeditions now have GSM or Sat phones are common and getting very cheap for lifes little emergancies.

the main point is why use an old unreliable vech in the first place Land Rover were not renound for their quality control, it improved towards the end of the Discovery run 2003-4. thats why Toyota and Nissan do so well its just the romantic in us that makes us buy a Rover.

Standby for more backlash than a 200 series Drive train:D

[Big Sandy]

Double standards?

So sorry to bruise your feelings Rich-P. I promise to not make glib remarks that are so obviously not thought out, if you promise to do the same.

[R0Y]

Rich, you might find the following website a good source of information for expeditionists - Expeditionist.com (http://expeditionist.com/)

[Rich_P]

LOL.

the problems my friends have had is that all the land Rovers that have been used on expeditions are old and bound to break down and require shed loads of mainanance because the Carnet is cheaper.

why not buy a 2-3 year old that has all the warrenty niggles sorted and proved its self reliable in the first place.

as for the fuel pump lol DHL or fedex in the max 3-4 days. you can temp repair a fuel pump if you are a member of the A team :D vertualy all expeditions now have GSM or Sat phones are common and getting very cheap for lifes little emergancies.

the main point is why use an old unreliable vech in the first place Land Rover were not renound for their quality control, it improved towards the end of the Discovery run 2003-4. thats why Toyota and Nissan do so well its just the romantic in us that makes us buy a Rover.

Standby for more backlash than a 200 series Drive train:D
What if you have a rebuilt older Land Rover that was made up mostly of either new or reconditioned parts?

So sorry to bruise your feelings Rich-P. I promise to not make glib remarks that are so obviously not thought out, if you promise to do the same.
Alright, although it was still rather an exaggeration to a large degree.

Rich, you might find the following website a good source of information for expeditionists - Expeditionist.com (http://expeditionist.com/)

Thanks Roy.

[ken110]

I'd have a defender....not mine coz that'd break at dover...someone else's 200tdi with a bed in the back..nothing else just a big bed. maybe some glitter balls and a disco lights.

The roof has to be boarded so that i can do my strip...oh with some cages on the front for the animals..

we are talking about an exibitionist vehicle....arnt we:o

[andyb43]

Has any one thought of getting a spare in line fuel pump that you could fit in if the tank pump failed?

what would the specifications be ie flow rate PSI ect?

[mmgemini]

I'd take exactly what I have now. My Defender 110 300Tdi station wagon.
It proved it'self twice in southern Africa so why change it.
Mind you we find it's only just big enought to live out of/with for three months so how we'll cope for six months remains to be seen.

[kram]

uni mog

[tony109]

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
Take your 200 Tdi defender, Discovery and it should be perfectly OK.. But if you do have problems they tend to be more terminal.. Timing belts break, your engines finished.. ECU problems and who'll fix it? Not a problem if the RAC is on the end of the phone but it really could be life threatening if your in a hostile environment..
However, since today travelling through europe is like nipping to the shops you'd never be short of assistance. It would just be inconvenient.
If you're in a more hostile environment, dessert crossings, sub zero conditions, deep muddy conditions, and outside europe, this is where all those complex extras such as ECU's really will let you down.. Do you need power steering? If that fails its yet another drawback that will make the vehicle very dificult to drive.
Getting it fixed by the garageman isn't quite the same in many places as it is in europe.. If you have the money then take the latest motor you can and if it breaks open your wallet. If you travelling in the real world you need to fix it yourself, which is why vehicles such as series motors are that much better.. Coil springs are great, but the design is nowhere near as hardy or fixable as the proper leaf springs.. These can be repaired or made anywhere in the world. On my fathers series 1 the rear springs broke and he had a new set made in Afganistan.
Series motors are far from perfect tho.. Standard rear axels will let you down.. so too will the latest Rover axels on discoveries and most defenders.. Fit salisbury axels.
Saying that, you'll probably be fine provided you drive the vehicle with sympathy.

[mowog]

iF the cambelt breaks usually a couple of push rods etc and your on your way again , the reliabilty of any vehicle is down to prep, and ecu etc are generally far more reliable for longer than total life mileage of older style vehicles .
The defender properly serviced and prepared has got to be a better tool than a 109 similarly prepared. More comfort, quicker, more fuel efficient etc. I have broken leaf springs (once) but never a coil . :) JMHO

[jkelly]

Well Id go for a TD5 110 or 130.

Of course the vehicle is only half the battle. Knowing every nut and bolt of the vehicle and it history is also just as important.

There is no reason why you shouldnt take a TD5, you simply have to take the right spares (as you do with older vehicles).

[Snagger]

I picked SIII because that's whay I rebuilt my 109 to do. However, I rebuilt that 109 because I already had a lot of sentimental attachment to it - if I was to start from scratch on another vehicle, I would only consider a Tdi 110.

[toppa]

I would have to say 110 comercial, TD5 :rolleyes:


Cheers

[tony109]

[quote=mowog;1075016]iF the cambelt breaks usually a couple of push rods etc and your on your way again ,


Who's told you that?.. Clearly its never happened to you.. If your very lucky only pushrods get bent.. Cam, pistons, conrods the lot are just as likely to get bent.. Belt driven timing is complete C###, hence why the MOD wont touch it, and why the latest engines are all back to chain.. Remember your sat behind a computer at home, not stopped in the middle on nowhere with a broken rubber belt.

[Steve HNZ]

[quote=mowog;1075016]iF the cambelt breaks usually a couple of push rods etc and your on your way again ,


Belt driven timing is complete C###, hence why the MOD wont touch it, and why the latest engines are all back to chain..

Could have sworn that wolfs had belt timing. ;) In fact I think it was only pi55 poor LR belt timing that there is a major problem with. Isuzu 2.8 & 3.1s are in the main belt timed (some are gear) & I've never heard of issues with these as long as their belts are done somewhere close to the recommended interval. I'll fit my expedition 110 with an Isuzu 2.8 I reckon (gear timed if I can find one):D
Steve.

[Snagger]

If timing belts are so bad that the MoD won't have them, explain to us why they ran 12J powered 90s and 110s for so long, only to replace them with 300Tdi powered Wolves. All those engine have timing belts.

I cocked up the timing the first time I built an engine, and all that was damaged was a couple of push rods. They're deliberately made to be sacrificial - that's why they're so thin and soft. More damage can occur if the timing belt goes at high revs, but even then, it's usually limited to broken rockers. A timing failure is very unlikely, though if the belt is replaced every 72,000 miles like scheduled, and it only takes me two hours to complete. Timing gears are bad as they shear teeth or shaft locating pegs, and chains have been known to stretch or snap too. Have you actually run a belt timed engine, Tony?

LR stuffed up the pulleys on the early 300 Tdis, but the other belt driven engines have proven to be very reliable, as have the 300 post pulley replacement.

[mmgemini]

[quote=mowog;1075016]iF the cambelt breaks usually a couple of push rods etc and your on your way again ,


Who's told you that?.. Clearly its never happened to you.. If your very lucky only pushrods get bent.. Cam, pistons, conrods the lot are just as likely to get bent.. Belt driven timing is complete C###, hence why the MOD wont touch it, and why the latest engines are all back to chain.. Remember your sat behind a computer at home, not stopped in the middle on nowhere with a broken rubber belt.

I'll be diplomatic.
What a load of rubbish.

I don't like timing belts. I never have. Having said that I've only seen those fail that weren't looked after. Yes I've worked on vehicles with timing belts since 1973.

As for the MOD not using belts. Where do you get mis-information like that.
Of course the MOD can buy a different 300Tdi from everybody else can't they ? :D

I used as 300Tdi for six months in Southern Africa. Of course it had a timing belt, looked after, I didn't expect any problems. Nor did I get any.

[tony109]

I have run belt driven timing belt engines but I dont like the things.. If your happy to trust a rubber belt to drive your timing then that is your choice.. The fact is, many cases have been told and reported of belts failing well within their recomended change intervals. Theres a heck of alot of occilation that takes place in a 4 stroke diesel, hence why timing gears fail so dramatically.. Rubber belts absorb this and deal with the problem well.. But they have been known to break, even if not contaminated with oil. A Chain does not snap or let go. I have had a failed tensioner be the cause of a chain slipping but this is an exception. I'll be bloody minded and say, there is nothing you can say that would make me believe a toothed rubber belt can be as reliable as a duplex chain..

[mmgemini]

A Chain does not snap or let go.



Oh yes they do....Like belts they can also jump a tooth. :eek:

[andyb43]

TD5

We Love ours Only problem has been the rear air springs caused by spacers fitted by Frogs Island.

All after 1 year overland and 40 000 km only parts have been 1 oil filter and 1 fuel filter.:D

[tony109]

Oh yes they do....Like belts they can also jump a tooth. :eek:

Thats right, chain has been known to jump, as I'd already said in my previous quote... If something as relible as a chain has been known to cause problems, why or how, can you possibly endorse the merits of a micky mouse rubber belt, with even less of a chance of remaining mechanically sound?
The truth is, there is no choice, you want a modern compact diesel you have to live with one or two, disadvantages. You have no choice in the matter, unless you can find or design a nice chain drive conversion kit for the 200tdi. Dont kid yourself that the engine is designed to have its internals mash together, and so has soft pushrods.. The damage that causes can be conciderable. So instead of singing the praises of the belt, realise its a serious potenticial fail point that could be a major problem if it failed and even out the pros and cons..

[duy]

A budgy with a large basket

[mowog]

Tony109 ,
I have operated landrovers continuosly since 1967, of all types , and have been involved in the motor trade most of my life.
I have had dealt with belt , chain and gear driven timing failures on many vehicles , including landrover. the big damage caused to engines is more to do with valve operation than the set up of the timing drive system. The worst set up is OHC with direct valve operation from the cam . With land rover engines, of the side cam type, with a timing failure the push rods or the brass cam followers usually sacrifice before damge is done to other parts. Vehicles of what ever type of cam drive if serviced/maintained properly give many miles of trouble free service.
Your prejudice against rubber belts I feel is ill founded, technology moves on , and rubber belts are very reliable . see Harley Davidson , chain replaced by rubber belt drive, drag raceing superchargers etc. :)

[tony109]

Tony109 ,
Your prejudice against rubber belts I feel is ill founded, technology moves on , and rubber belts are very reliable . see Harley Davidson , chain replaced by rubber belt drive, drag raceing superchargers etc. :)


This isn't just my prejudice that Im quoting.. Real world failures happen far to regularly with belts.. hence why many of the latest engines being built today have moved back to using chain.. Your saying technology moves on, as if Chain is old world technology, it isnt.. They still haven't managed to replace the old fasioned wheel.
Many Harley's Ive seen are belt drive.. And perhaps there lies another option..
The width of the belt must play a large part in its tensile strength.. So whats are the chances of replacing the standard size belt, which is clearly at its operational edge and replacing it with wider and thicker belt??. larger gear wheels and that might be a more realistic solution.. Is that do-able, is there room to go wider?

[jkelly]

What a load of old tosh... Look after the engine and it will provide long, reliable service wherever it happens to be. That said, obviously you will get the odd failure.

Didnt someone make a set of Zeus timing sprockets to replace the early belts on a 300Tdi???

[mmgemini]

I agree Jon.
Look after a vehicle and it will look after you....

I worked for a lot of years on fleet work. We looked after all the vehicles to same. However you got drivers that as long as they could fit their backside on the driving seat they didn't give a toss about the vehicle. Those drivers had more trouble and breakdowns with their vehicles than others.

Yes you will get the odd wrong vehicle.... I know I've had some.... Even with 50 miles on the clock...


Zeus gears... There's a pile of information on those about. Not all of it good aparently.............

[tony109]

What a load of old tosh... Look after the engine and it will provide long, reliable service wherever it happens to be. That said, obviously you will get the odd failure.

Didnt someone make a set of Zeus timing sprockets to replace the early belts on a 300Tdi???


Is that the voice of arrogance I hear??
The loads carried on the timing gears Occilate and this is why timing gears fail.. The zeus gears have been known to break up in style, just look on here and you'll see peoples experience with them.
The loads carried on the Belt are the same and over time, add oil to the equation and disaster is waiting to happen..
Look after your engine, change a belt regularly, should be enough, but thats the point... It dose not guarantee a thing.
Chain is the most reliable way, provided the tensioner is kept in good condition.. Series 1, 2 have a beautifully designed tensioners, come series 3, things start to become cheapened...

[jkelly]

Certainly not the voice of arrogance!

Seemingly everyone agrees that failures occur now and again and that regular care and attention to detail prevents many premature failures.

As a % of "bad ones" to "good ones" though I cant see the point in discussing timing belts for the next three weeks! There are far more unreliable bits to the vehicles... UJ's and Diff oil seals for example. Then again, with a well looked after vehicle, they last a long while too... Is there a common theme here????

At the end of the day these vehicles are, by enlarge as reliable as the sun rising and falling - thats why 78% (or whatever it is nowadays) of all ever made LRs are still on the road!

[tony109]

I agree full peperation is what is needed for any long distance trip.. Regular maintainance will always be required along the way.
This quote is made by Jack Jackson, a veteran of 150 expeditions as found in land rover owner, issue 7 1996

" I use four wheel drive vehicles in the worst possible conditions in the third world. Consequently I require LWB hard top models that are tough and reliable in the field. Spares, if a problem may involve cannabalising parts from defunct vehicles. The series 3 109 4 cylinder petrol remains the expedition workhorse of choice.. After the persistent failures of the series 2a rear diffs, the Salisbury axels are a godsend. Stronger all round than todays models these vehicles are easy to repair and give few problems...
I succumb to the extra comfort and ride quality of the modern Tdi Defender 110 for use in the UK, where camshaft timing belt failure is not life threatening."

The Other unreliable parts you mension "Jkelly" such as UJs, axel oil seals are not going to cause you to stop and can be repaired at anytime along the way when it is safer or more comfortable to do so.

[mmgemini]

I agree full peperation is what is needed for any long distance trip.. Regular maintainance will always be required along the way.
This quote is made by Jack Jackson, a veteran of 150 expeditions as found in land rover owner, issue 7 1996

" I use four wheel drive vehicles in the worst possible conditions in the third world. Consequently I require LWB hard top models that are tough and reliable in the field. Spares, if a problem may involve cannabalising parts from defunct vehicles. The series 3 109 4 cylinder petrol remains the expedition workhorse of choice.. After the persistent failures of the series 2a rear diffs, the Salisbury axels are a godsend. Stronger all round than todays models these vehicles are easy to repair and give few problems...
I succumb to the extra comfort and ride quality of the modern Tdi Defender 110 for use in the UK, where camshaft timing belt failure is not life threatening."

The Other unreliable parts you mension "Jkelly" such as UJs, axel oil seals are not going to cause you to stop and can be repaired at anytime along the way when it is safer or more comfortable to do so.

Could you please quote something up to date.

As for repairs that can be done safely.. Yes there is one place to do that. In the workshop.

Frankly I wouldn't want to travel any African road in an asmatic 2.25 petrol or diesel engine on rock hard cart springs.
I think you wil find Africa has moved on a bit since that quote.
Most Africans now prefere Toyota.

Why should cambelt failure be life threatening ?

[Snagger]

I agree full peperation is what is needed for any long distance trip.. Regular maintainance will always be required along the way.
This quote is made by Jack Jackson, a veteran of 150 expeditions as found in land rover owner, issue 7 1996

" I use four wheel drive vehicles in the worst possible conditions in the third world. Consequently I require LWB hard top models that are tough and reliable in the field. Spares, if a problem may involve cannabalising parts from defunct vehicles. The series 3 109 4 cylinder petrol remains the expedition workhorse of choice.. After the persistent failures of the series 2a rear diffs, the Salisbury axels are a godsend. Stronger all round than todays models these vehicles are easy to repair and give few problems...
I succumb to the extra comfort and ride quality of the modern Tdi Defender 110 for use in the UK, where camshaft timing belt failure is not life threatening."

The Other unreliable parts you mension "Jkelly" such as UJs, axel oil seals are not going to cause you to stop and can be repaired at anytime along the way when it is safer or more comfortable to do so.You're quoting someone else's ill-founded paranoia of belts does not make you right, and yours has so far been the only arrogant tone on this thread. I have never met anyone who has had a timing belt failure. Muddybungy's 300Tdi D90 had the early type of timing assembly, and had not been rectified under recall, being British High Comminsion soemwhere in Africa. When he went to replace the belt after buying the vehicle, the betlt was down to 1/3rd of its normal width, having been chewed up by the misaligned sprockets, but still hadn't failed.

As stated by others, chains fail to. You said it yourself that you had suffered a timing failure with a chain, yet you continue to extoll the virtues of the chain over the belt. That experience should have taught you that there is little difference either way. At least we agree that gears are a bad thing.;)

[tony109]

Could you please quote something up to date.

Most of us here drive vehcles of the 50's 60's and 70's, how up to date are they? Its a quote from someone with plenty of experience and his concerns are as justified then as now.

As for repairs that can be done safely.. Yes there is one place to do that. In the workshop.

If you have a problem while your travelling for months on end, you fix it where ever you are.. And It dosn't matter how well preped your vehcles if your driving harsh roads maintanance will always be needed. No doubt repairs such as oil seals will be one of the many things needed, or the damage could be serious, so you solve the problem as soon as you can..

Frankly I wouldn't want to travel any African road in an asmatic 2.25 petrol or diesel engine on rock hard cart springs.
I think you wil find Africa has moved on a bit since that quote.
Most Africans now prefere Toyota.

Why should cambelt failure be life threatening ?

Perhaps we're talking on different wave lengths here, travelling anywhere in europe is never going to be much of a problem.. having the engine fail big time, when your miles away from anywhere, perhaps crossing the Gobi dessert or in temperatures well below zero, thats when it can become life threatening.. That is when you'll have the full benefit of a such a great leap in technology.
My 'arrogant tone' will have to persist on this one. You cannot sell me the concept of a rubber belt doing the work of a proper chain.

[mmgemini]

As you can't fill in your profile I don't know where you are.
Perhaps you could enlighten us to which African country you live in
Then point us to all your trip and travel experiencies.


Frankly I find your posrts very arrogant. Obviously I haven't travelled in your opinion. Nor in your opinion do I have any understanding of the mechanics of a vehicle.

Again I will ask. How would a failed cambelt cause a life threateneing situation ?

I've never travelled in europe. So what would I know.

[mmgemini]

Too late to edit.
tony109
What do you think about the Discovery 3 for overland travel.
Especially in Africa ?

[toppa]

There is no right vehicle as such, all sorts of vehicles are used by different people..

We obviously choose land rover over toyota and the like because that is our vehicle of choice....

as for the right land rover, well again there is no right land rover, if you look through the past expeds, people have used them all at one time or another...

But as stated, mechanical soundness is a must.... As Mike and Jkelly and many others that not only prepare vehicles for a living but also drive them across the continents will support.

You want to take a Series 2, prepare it and take it, I have TD5 so that will be my vehicle of choice....

Each land rover has known weak points, prepare them before departure and monitor them during the travels, as you shouold anyway on a daily routine...

As for the chain and belt argument, again yes belt can snap.... usually caused by not changing at prescribed interval or oil ingress from crank seal leak and the like... again preperation is the key before departure.... and i dont know allot about the chains as im new to them....

Would you get on a plane with leaking oil from one of the engines and haul your self around the wourld? Same goes for your truck.........



My 10cents worthless :D


Cheers

[jkelly]

You raise a good point Mike... The modern LR vehicles (D3 included) are not designed just to take the kids to school! Suitably prepared and looked after they will perform anywhere in the world, just like an old S1/2/3 would... and then some. I know that when I come to change the 110, It will be hard to justify another Defender... D3 calling...

The point being that time and technologies move on. We progressed from the stone wheel to rubber tyres and I see no reason not to keep moving forward in choice of vehicles...

I remember you telling me about a prepared D3 you had a long chat with whilst in the middle of Angola... Obviously they are making their way overseas and we know they are more than capable. Clearly though it will take time for the locals to get to know them so you are more self reliant on that score. Of course there is a theory that if you are putting yourself in that position (middle of no-where), you should be able to diagnose and look after your own vehicle.

I know you have extensive lone African travel experience and that you are more than capable of fixing any part of your Defender.

On the other hand I cant remember you saying that you'd ever had a belt problem with your 300Tdi...

Lets agree to disagree and move on. Clearly 99% of people are in common agreement, if everyone shared the same thoughts life would be boring!

[wadams20]

The point being that time and technologies move on. We progressed from the stone wheel to rubber tyres and I see no reason not to keep moving forward in choice of vehicles...


I much preferred the stone wheel. These modern rubber tyres are susceptible to blow outs. I am an expert so you will all agree with me. :D

[jkelly]

lol!

[Henk Coetzee]

Perhaps we're talking on different wave lengths here, travelling anywhere in europe is never going to be much of a problem.. having the engine fail big time, when your miles away from anywhere, perhaps crossing the Gobi dessert or in temperatures well below zero, thats when it can become life threatening.. That is when you'll have the full benefit of a such a great leap in technology.
My 'arrogant tone' will have to persist on this one. You cannot sell me the concept of a rubber belt doing the work of a proper chain.

I'm sorry, but any vehicle, however well prepared is a weak link if you are travelling across the Gobi Desert, which is why you prepare properly for an expedition like this. Ideally there should be more than one vehicle, failing which you need to carry emergency food, satphone etc. etc. There are any number of problems which could leave a vehicle stranded, with accident damage probably being the most likely.

[tony109]

I'm sorry, but any vehicle, however well prepared is a weak link if you are travelling across the Gobi Desert, which is why you prepare properly for an expedition like this. Ideally there should be more than one vehicle, failing which you need to carry emergency food, satphone etc. etc. There are any number of problems which could leave a vehicle stranded, with accident damage probably being the most likely.

Travelling in convoy has as many advantages to disadvantages. If you plan to travel such a harsh route then you need to be able to repair any problems with the vehcle yourself.. Emergency food and other provisions of course are needed.. But do you really need a satphone? If your travels are going to become a liability, then such a venture shouldn't be concidered..
Accidence can happen which is why you take no chances and actually confront the undertaking you are on.. Realise that mistakes could become life threatening.. Thats what makes it an adventure

[Snagger]

Travelling in convoy has as many advantages to disadvantages. If you plan to travel such a harsh route then you need to be able to repair any problems with the vehcle yourself.. Emergency food and other provisions of course are needed.. But do you really need a satphone? If your travels are going to become a liability, then such a venture shouldn't be concidered..
Accidence can happen which is why you take no chances and actually confront the undertaking you are on.. Realise that mistakes could become life threatening.. Thats what makes it an adventureThe disadvantage to convoys is cost. There are not any other significant problems for a small convoy. A trip across highly inhospitable terrain should not be undertaken by a solitary vehicle, especially with no communications to the outside world. Anything can happen to strand the vehicle or incapacitate a lone driver. There is still no logic in your argument against timing belts.

[TEMPL4R]

A Chain driven TD5 oil pump can fail, anything ill prepared can fail. If I were to cross a desert, I would certainly prepare the vehicle to its best.

I haven't had a Timing belt fail for years, it was common that they did snap or usually stripped the teeth off, but nowerdays it's either the tensioners or guides, water pump or a crankpulley breaking up that takes the belt out, very rarely the belt itself failing.

The good thing is, you can buy a kit for about £70 and change it every so many thousand miles in a couple of hours, not so with a chain. A belt snaps and you can carry a spare kit, straighten out the push rods and get going again ( if it hasn't broken all the rocker shaft supports, obviously). A chain lets go and it can take the casings with it. ( Land Rover 200, 300 and Series, not TD5, Shogun, etc)

Chris

[mmgemini]

Exactly Chris.

Actually I carry a spare belt, even though a new one has just been fitted before the trip.
I also carry push rods and a rocker shaft set.

What I didn't carry and needed, was a pair of head dowells. I took one out in three pieces. Luckily we were in a situation where we could get spares couriered [sp] to us, the problem being that the dealer had only one dowell. Next time I'll carry a pair of dowells.

[Henk Coetzee]

But do you really need a satphone?

No, although on the recent forum trip to Mozambique it came in quite handy when we were separated from the convoy by a blown turbo hose.

http://http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=122459 (http://http//forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=122459)

We were able to receive critical navigation information about the route ahead. Messages like "We'll meet you at the first pub as you drive into Massingir".

[mmgemini]

No, although on the recent forum trip to Mozambique it came in quite handy when we were separated from the convoy by a blown turbo hose.

http://http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=122459 (http://http//forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=122459)

We were able to receive critical navigation information about the route ahead. Messages like "We'll meet you at the first pub as you drive into Massingir".

I find the main problem with a sat 'phone is the cost of the hire against the use it would get. Swinfgs and roundabouts I think.
Ten years ago you wouldn't have been able to get one, would you.

[jkelly]

Sat phones are great but you need to make sure you get one that will work in the area you are visiting.

Also Mike, costs are dropping all the time. Admittedly they are still not "cheap" but they are now significantly cheaper than they were say 2 or 3 years ago. For a trip like your planning I suspect it would be cheaper to buy one, take it with you and then sell it when you get back (unless you plan on going back again!!??)

Call costs are also expensive - but I dont consider that a problem... If I NEED a sat phone, I'll gladly pay the call costs!

[kevinrbeech]

What would you pick as your expedition vehicle if you were to undertake an expedition?

I had to "Quote" the original question as having read through the posts I had forgotten it.

I think my choice would depend on where I expected to travel, how many people were travelling in the car, the expected comfort level (ie beds, shower, running water etc), and to some extent the mechanical knowledge of the crew. Other considerations would have to be availability of spares, range per tank of fuel and load capacity.
Assuming, as this is posted on a LR forum, that we would be choosing a LR, which I would anyway, then I'd go for my current vehicle, a 200TDi, 93, in fact it is currently undergoing a rather major welding repair to ensure it is ready for the next big adventure once I've decided on where it will be.

For those of us that also view the HUBB forums, it is obvious that hundreds of travellers are travelling all over the world, every day. They are in all manner of vehicle, some doing three week trips some not knowing when the journey will end.

Talking of spares to take, breakdowns, etc. My mate Paul was in his "well maintained" Defender last time we went to Tunisia. On a piste about 30km from anywhere his back axle became detached from the body on one side as the nut had dropped off the lower link arm. Paul had the bushes changed by an indy LR garage in Leeds a few weeks before the trip, the big washer and half the bush had also gone. Ok, no driving that anymore on the terrain that we were on, no one had anything big enough for that. We used a ratchet strap to hold the axle forward against the remaining bush and drove the 30km carefully into Douz. At a garage there, they removed the bush and turned and aluminium one on a lathe, found a big nut and re-assembled the lot. Lasted another ten days in the desert and all the way back to Leeds.

Same trip, Defender 110, clutch started slipping on the dunes, it was that really smelly bad slip. Towed the car to camp and the pedal was rock hard, let it cool down, bled the clutch, started to work better, bled it again and it was fine for the rest of the trip.

My water pump failed in 2004, in the desert, it was a genuine LR part fitted in August of that year by LR. Each morning for four days I took the pump off to fill it with more plastic metal. The longitudinal bearing had failed so the impellor was grinding away at the casing, the only spare was for a Defender 200TDi, unfortunately a different pump. Last day we were towed 100km along piste and another 70km on road. Effected repair in Marsielle using a Britpart pump and drove home to UK. The Britpart pump is still on the car now and has returned to the desert twice, and covered around 40,000 miles since.

In Lybia, two years ago, a friend of mine took a group travelling and they ran out of Diesel, they couldn't find any where they were, eventually the police/military allowed them to buy some of their reserve stock.

My reason for this post: You never know what may break, you could puncture three tyres, you could roll the car, you could get lost, etc etc. Travelling for me is all about the adventure, at any time when I go my contingency fund is about £1000, if I'm lucky, anything major and I'd be stuck, I'd have to leave the car and find an alternative way home with my family.

In summary, I guess the perfect car is the one that you can rebuild yourself, or if all else fails be prepared to leave it behind.

Only my opinion, I'm not out to upset anyone, but I'm sure I probably will.

Kevin

[AnalogKid]

Interesting stuff Kevin, especially that last bit...a car you're prepared to leave behind. It certainly makes rational decisions easier if you have that attitude. Look at the Rally Mongolia, 1000cc 2wd rats that are thrashed all the way, if it breaks, you just walk away.

There's not many places on Earth you can't survive if well enough prepared, the vehicle just lets you see more of it faster. Plenty of people have done overland RTW trips on pushbikes, or by foot.

[tony109]

Im not a pessimest, but a realist.. If you've been following nobbers Cor fu trip you'll know the fun he had with his turbo.. Turbo failure or any of its ancilleries will really make life difficult.. All of those niceties in the UK will become a nightmare should they fail.
The discovery 3 isn't even relative, and you dont want my opinion of it anyway.. But, since you ask., Its a gimmick to outdo the opposition. ETC, ABS, PAS, do you need any of this? No.. The point is you can travel from A-B in any vehicle, but if your travelling somewhere harsh you want an equally hardy vehicle that can be repaired if need be.. The option of leaving it behind should things go seriously wrong is always there.. But remember, you enter a country with the car on your passport, so you cant just leave without it unless you pay import duty, etc. In the EU this is different now of course.
Anyone, if they have the money can buy a new vehicle and then go, but for the rest of us in the real world, taking the vehicle you have is the only option and Preperation is the key. Back to timing chain vs belt. Belt tensioners on the original 2.25 wont let the chain slip.. My old chain had stretched by some %, but remained tight. Timing belts could never be left this long without causing trouble.. So for far flung overland travel, I'll avoid turbos and timing belts...

[jkelly]

You'll be telling us to walk there next Tony109... More reliable no doubt:D:D

Must admit though. I do agree with "preparation is the key".

[Snagger]

Im not a pessimest, but a realist.. If you've been following nobbers Cor fu trip you'll know the fun he had with his turbo.. Turbo failure or any of its ancilleries will really make life difficult.. All of those niceties in the UK will become a nightmare should they fail.
The discovery 3 isn't even relative, and you dont want my opinion of it anyway.. But, since you ask., Its a gimmick to outdo the opposition. ETC, ABS, PAS, do you need any of this? No.. The point is you can travel from A-B in any vehicle, but if your travelling somewhere harsh you want an equally hardy vehicle that can be repaired if need be.. The option of leaving it behind should things go seriously wrong is always there.. But remember, you enter a country with the car on your passport, so you cant just leave without it unless you pay import duty, etc. In the EU this is different now of course.
Anyone, if they have the money can buy a new vehicle and then go, but for the rest of us in the real world, taking the vehicle you have is the only option and Preperation is the key. Back to timing chain vs belt. Belt tensioners on the original 2.25 wont let the chain slip.. My old chain had stretched by some %, but remained tight. Timing belts could never be left this long without causing trouble.. So for far flung overland travel, I'll avoid turbos and timing belts...

I agree that the newest vehicles are too complex and vulnerable, but your persecution of belts is still unjustified - timing belts won't slip, even if the crank seal is leaking oil into the timing case, unless you didn't tighten the tensioner correctly, and the belt is exceedingly unlikely to snap if replaced on schedule. At £10 or less for an OEM Dayco belt, if you don't replace them on schedule, then you desrve any problems that you get, but the same is true for people who negelct timing chains too. As for turbos, they don't tend to be a problem if you drive sensibly and are in the habit of using decent oil and ensuring the engine is stabilised briefly before increasing the throttle after starting or letting it idle a few seconds before shut down. They tend to go wrong when oil changes are neglected, they're overboosted, run without good condition filters/intake ducts, or the engine is revved hard before the oil has started to circulate.

[toppa]

Interesting article in LRO about some one travalling across OZ, they debated about a sat phone, they decided to take one, luck for them as they vroke down....


Why isnt TD5 on the poll at the top?


Cheers

[tony109]

The TD5 is a top spec engine no doubt.. Im not aware of any drawbacks with it so far.. Its a modern engine with individual cylinder injectors as seen on early diesels and large marine engines. 5 cylinders improves dynamic balance and Im happy to say they've reverted back to using a proper timing chain.. How technolgy progresses.
The amount of electronics controlling injection, etc, is something I'd be a bit concerned about, but it sounds like a great engine.
I know a company who bought a transit mini bus.. When bought they had a choice of ECU or mechanical injection.. When the engine mysteriously failed the repair bill was so great for a new Electronic modual that they converted the engine back to a mechanical system.

[mowog]

Good preparation, a satphone and a decent size emergeny fund, money solves most(all) problems .
The satphone is the biggest advance in safety, I used one in OZ as I was usually 100's of Ks from mobile phone, and two way radio (HF) is just as expensive and more bulky (in comparison) .
No matter what vehicle you travel with things can go wrong , even when well prepared , so you have to consider how you get yourself out of it . More often than not this will require outside assistance. Which was what I was providing. This brings me back to the first sentence as getting the help and being able to pay the costs involved is the answer.
With travel you have to accept a certain level of risk, but it does not pay to load the dice against you. JMHO :)

[discocuzzy]

Hi Guys,

Fistly great forum, very informative!

lots of thoughts on this post regarding old/new vehicles and there effectivness abroad when overlanding and i can see the merits of both.
i run an expedition spec D3 and have just bought a 2001 TD5 double cab that i plan to take to south africa next year.

Someone mentioned the D3 earlier as being too complicated to be taken seriously as a overland vehicle and to some extent i would agree having just done a trip to tunisia in it.
With older vehicles you need to take enough spares in case of mechanical failure, with newer vehicles you need to take a laptop with ecu diagnostics!..same principle really..prep is key just different technolgy!.
Most problems with the modern vehicles occur when minor electronic issues cause cascade type issues with modern ecus. For example i had a abs sensor wire chaffe through when driving through Tunisia and it through up Terrain responce not available,HDC off, traction control and abs unavaible. This then dumps the car into access mode and does not allow you to go into off road height and limits the speed.
You might think this would be a show stopper but as this was a known issue, i had the sensor as a spare and one of the guys had an autologic fault system.
Plugged it in...diagnosed the fault...manually changed the sensor, cleared the fault codes and was on my way within an hour.

In summary IMHO..i would only do limited holidays in the D3 with a group, i wouldnt entertain serious overlanding in just the 1 vehicle...they are crap in sand as well, hence the double cab purchase!
However, how many of us have the time to overland for more than 3 weeks at a time anyway?

110 or i hate to say it..probably a land cruiser if i was venturing to all corners of the globe on my own.

One thing with Toyotas......you can get em fixed anywhere and they generally are slightly more comfortable than an old Landy.

Just my early thoughts and am not an expert on the subject at all!

[mmgemini]

I was told by those in Namibia ansd South Africa that Toyota spares are nigh impossible to get. When they are available they are too expensive.

Nothing wrong with the D3.
People are using them for overlanding now.
I saw two going into Angola last year. One pulling a very nice overland trailer.

[challisc]

Defender 110, any series in a close second, and nothing else.

[nobber]

still think a unimog would be better.:)

[Mr 130 project]

Vote = Defender TDi

Reality = 130 Double Cab with Mazda engine conversion..... but thats because I just bought one for the job!!! :D

[dsj1979]

With it being such a popular conversion should there be a vote for a series tdi? :)

Great engine, simple series mechanicals and looks old enough so you don't look like a rich Westerner :)

[tony109]

With it being such a popular conversion should there be a vote for a series tdi? :)

Great engine, simple series mechanicals and looks old enough so you don't look like a rich Westerner :)

Only if its a Tdi with a timing chain conversion, uprated transmission and no turbo..

[nobber]

i dont see why a disco is so low in votes , its a brilliant vehicle , its basically a defender with a more cumfy body on top is it not?
and , am i right in saying they are 100'' wheel base?

i think the good old disco is getting underated here guys.

by the way the votes are going most people would rather take a series three than a disco on an expedition?

[Rich_P]

i dont see why a disco is so low in votes , its a brilliant vehicle , its basically a defender with a more cumfy body on top is it not?
and , am i right in saying they are 100'' wheel base?
No, it's not basically a Defender with a more comfy body on top. The Disco 1 is, in short, a Range Rover Classic with a modified body. ;) (yes it is a 100-inch wheelbase)



i think the good old disco is getting underated here guys.
I agree. But the Range Rover isn't exactly scoring too high either...



by the way the votes are going most people would rather take a series three than a disco on an expedition?
That's cause they're so much cooler. :D

[nobber]

have you ever driven any kind of considerable distance over a long period of time in your series rich? i know i wouldnt like to. ;)
cool yes , comfortable no.

i really dont see why people would choose looks over comfort , especially if the expedition is set over a large distance and long time. 10 days behind the wheel of my 90 and im clawing the walls for something more comfortable.

also , its has been said that a 100'' wheel base is much better for traveling over rough terrain , its a nice compromise.
so why dont people use them more often?
the rangie can be an electrical nightmare and usually comes equipped with a large thirsty v8 , nothing like the simple series and early defenders but the disco , tdi motor , not too much electrics to worry about , 2 doors are still fairly easy to get , mostly built up of generic rrc/defender parts , lots of different mods available , i just dont see why people dont choose them over other vehicles.

i know for my next trip i will be looking at other vehicles rather than the 90 , the 90 is too small but much much too uncomfortable. the 2/300 tdi disco will be a contender , but then again so will the toyota land cruiser.:)

if you type 'expedition vehicle' into google images , there arnt as many landys coming up as you might expect.

i suppose what it boils down to though is , where is your expedition going to take you , this as well as budget will dictate the kind of vehicle you use.
although a good all rounder might be something like this

http://www.allterrainmotorhomes.com/index.php

if you have deep enough pockets.

[dsj1979]

I've got a Discovery I'm using at the moment, though I bought it for it to be stripped of its tdi engine so it can go into my 109. I personally hate it, but my other half loves it. She says it's the most comfortable vehicle she's been in, I find it far too soft and bouncy. I really don't like driving it but I love driving the 109 - well kind of. I like the harder suspension on the 109, and the noise isn't too bad with a few mods....

Logically or not, these are the reasons why I prefer the 109 to the Discovery, just my opinions and not based on a standard 109.....

Tax free - saves me nearly £200 a year and as I'm keeping it, that adds up to a lot of savings over the years.

It's a great workhorse, and you can make it into anything. Builders skip, camping vehicle etc. It's a more versitle vehicle

One day when I manage to go abroad in it to far reaching places, it won't make me look like a rich Westerner.

It won't rust - bear in mind I have a galvanised chassis and have got a galvanised bulkhead to fit.

Easy to modify, take apart. Far more little nooks and crannys for battery relocation, air tanks, lpg, extra fuel tanks etc.

Very cheap spares.

With a tdi engine no lack of power issues.

Guess I must love the way it looks!

I prefer the way it drives to the Discovery - weird I know!

No power steering so keeps me fit..... (ok, maybe this ones pushing it! ;) lol)

I think that's about it, but for me personally that's why I prefer the 109 or rather my 109. :)

[nobber]

cool , so whats the longest drive youve ever done in it?

[Rich_P]

have you ever driven any kind of considerable distance over a long period of time in your series rich? i know i wouldnt like to. ;)
cool yes , comfortable no.
They can be made comfortable mind. :p I don't think the late S3 CSW was bad really, quite comfy compared to my 2A that I do know!


i really dont see why people would choose looks over comfort , especially if the expedition is set over a large distance and long time. 10 days behind the wheel of my 90 and im clawing the walls for something more comfortable.

also , its has been said that a 100'' wheel base is much better for traveling over rough terrain , its a nice compromise.
so why dont people use them more often?
the rangie can be an electrical nightmare and usually comes equipped with a large thirsty v8 , nothing like the simple series and early defenders but the disco , tdi motor , not too much electrics to worry about , 2 doors are still fairly easy to get , mostly built up of generic rrc/defender parts , lots of different mods available , i just dont see why people dont choose them over other vehicles.
I think it's because of a mixture of reasons. The Discovery isn't the easiest of vehicles to modify when compared to the utility vehicles. The Disco 1 also rots, badly, which will no doubt put people off. Finally it's not the stereotypical "Land Rovery" image to do expeditions in a Disco, I think people in general see the expeditions being performed by the utility models more than the others because that's just how the media etc. has portrayed it for so many years.

I personally wouldn't discount a Discovery for expeditionary type trips at all.

[nobber]

yeah your probably right.
tony does a lot of long distances in his 109 so im sure they cant be that bad.
i do still like the comfortability (is that a word?) of the disco over the other models though.
there are times when im driving the 90 when i think 'this is really a cool thing to drive' but thats mostly when im going to the shops or doing local lanes or work, if ive got a 400 mile motorway journey im usually thinking other things.;)

[dsj1979]

cool , so whats the longest drive youve ever done in it?

If you're talking in one go, only about 600 miles, then a week off and 600 miles back. It's a long day!! I like driving the 109 though it's not as standard. The wright off soundproofing helps - and the tdi will dramatically change the driveability of it. The biggest things for me though are free tax and no rust - that makes Daniel a happy boy, free tax and no rust, that makes Daniel a happy boy free tax and..... sorry, fell into a shining moment then! :D

[dsj1979]

if ive got a 400 mile motorway journey im usually thinking other things.;)

When will my ears stop ringing? :D

[Snagger]

Only if its a Tdi with a timing chain conversion, uprated transmission and no turbo..
Yawn. Old hobby horse, and without merit.

The only issues I had with my engine on the 2,500 miles in two weeks, dragging a 3.5T vehicle up to 10,500' and up 1in3 ski slopes was the coolant line T-pieces in the heater matrix lines for the SVO heat exchanger splitting open. The engine ran flawlessly.

As for the rest of it, the comparitive weakness of the drum brakes of the SIII was avoided by descending the paved mountain roads slower than the others. Two of the Defenders cooked their brakes, but mine were cool, and it only took me five minutes longer to descend the ten miles and 3,000'. The lesser steering lock of the Series front axle was only evident when compared to a Defender with spacers - the other two Defenders had the same steering circle as I had, due to my 7x16" 8-spokes' greater offset and me allowing greater steeing lock adjustment (I'll be fitting Defender axles to gain greater lock than a Defender, with a steering circle similar to a RRC/D1).

[Snagger]

yeah your probably right.
tony does a lot of long distances in his 109 so im sure they cant be that bad.
i do still like the comfortability (is that a word?) of the disco over the other models though.
there are times when im driving the 90 when i think 'this is really a cool thing to drive' but thats mostly when im going to the shops or doing local lanes or work, if ive got a 400 mile motorway journey im usually thinking other things.;)A Discovery or Range Rover is more comfortable than a SIII or Defender, but not necessarily massively so. OK, my SIII is anything but standard, but the interior is done with standard Defender seats and belts and the mattinga nd headling are easily obtainable parts. We had no comfort issues on our Alps trip - infact, the other kids in the Defenders and DIIs envied our kids for having the most comfortable second row and by far the most space and leg room of all the vehicles on the trip, even the D3. The noise was less than in the Defenders because of the Nise Killer and Wright Off Road kits, and the internal temperatures were the lowest except for those with aircon because of the "light smoke" tinted windows and now unfashionable (but ever practical) white roof. The only comfort issue was the suspension leans when cornering the faster twisting mountain roads when travelling fully laden with the roof rack packed (it was OK on the day drives) - that'll be cured with either an anti-roll bar or a pair of those helper air-springs from Matt Savage.

[tony109]

At the end of the day,, talking about what we'd like to have and what we do have maybe two different things.. i'd like to take a brand new Discovery 3.. its got lovely armrests and cup holders and its so comfortable.. Damn ugly, overpriced and unnecessarily complicated, but it is comfortable.
When it stops somewhere cold and hostile or locks out into 'fail safe' mode im sure we'd all be singing its praises.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" So no turbo and rubber belt for me.. Keep it lean and clean and the number of problems you can have is reduced.

By the way,, if were just talking about travelling long distances on the motorways... Use a car, Its quicker and cheaper.. if we're talking about trure overlanding, then what i said above is my true thoughts

[tony109]

[quote=Snagger;1103632]Yawn. Old hobby horse, and without merit.


Timing belts... Yawn?

An ideal choice for an expedition vehicle is one with as little vulnerability as possible.
Im against timing belts on principle, dispite being assured that most people never have problems with them.. But most people dont travel that far off the beaten track..
Since a timing belt is vulnerable to oil, grit etc, it dosnt make it the best solution, when compared with a timing chain, sealed inside an engine, fed with oil.. What would happen if you had a minor seal leakage? I assume there is a drain plug in the timing cover, which also needs to be refitted for wading, etc.
I was in Russia when I suffered major crankcase compression.. I solved the immediate problem by catching the engine oil in a pot and reusing it, but a full engine rebuild was needed, hardly practicle where I was. So I continued onto kazan and back to the UK, a further 6000 miles. Oil mist was still around the engine.
Now with a rubber timing belt this could have become terminal.. In difficult conditions, if something can go wrong it usually does, so a minor problem could become terminal. Increasing your vulnerability in my book is a rubber timing belt.

[dsj1979]

[quote=Snagger;1103632]
I was in Russia when I suffered major crankcase compression.. I solved the immediate problem by catching the engine oil in a pot and reusing it, but a full engine rebuild was needed, hardly practicle where I was. So I continued onto kazan and back to the UK, a further 6000 miles. Oil mist was still around the engine.
Now with a rubber timing belt this could have become terminal.. In difficult conditions, if something can go wrong it usually does, so a minor problem could become terminal. Increasing your vulnerability in my book is a rubber timing belt.


To be fair though, you knew you had a problem before you left the UK so it didn't just happen when stuck in the middle of nowhere. Although you managed to fix the symtoms when there, if you had a rubber belt engine say for example a 200 tdi ;) then you probably wouldn't have left with that problem evident.

Each to their own. I like the 2.25 diesel engine...... when it's good. My big landys 2.25 is completely shagged, my little landy has a rebuild 2.25 which starts on the button BUT you still have to really work a 2.25 The tdi (normally) good or bad will start on the button and you don't have to work the engine as hard to get moving and is a lot better on fuel. Downsides are injectos, pistons, conrods all engine parts are a LOT more expensive than a 2.25 but you also don't need to rebuild a tdi as often.

For me, the sensible option is a tdi, for you a 2.25 everyone will prefer different things and for different reasons. For me the extra fuel economy, engine driveability, reliability out ways the potential of a timing belt snapping (when changed regularly) .

[dsj1979]

Tony,

As an engineer you should make a timing chain kit for a tdi - you'd make a fortune! Lots of people bought the Zeus kit which is terrible, a chain would sell like hotcakes! :)

Daniel

[Satancom]

I want to do a bit of mild touring in mine once I have the engine bedded in and any of the smaller problems sorted.. Go away for a week and live in the truck :)

[Rich_P]

I trust you wouldn't resort to quite the same basic sleeping hardships like you have done so far? :D

[tony109]

Tony,

As an engineer you should make a timing chain kit for a tdi - you'd make a fortune! Lots of people bought the Zeus kit which is terrible, a chain would sell like hotcakes! :)

Daniel

Actually, a chain conversion would be a worthwhile one. A duplex chain or better still an inverted tooth chain which has many advantages for strength and durability over even standard roller chain, and it runs silently like belt.

[dsj1979]

Actually, a chain conversion would be a worthwhile one. A duplex chain or better still an inverted tooth chain which has many advantages for strength and durability over even standard roller chain, and it runs silently like belt.


If someone made a chain conversion for a tdi at a fair price I would certainly buy one! I'm surprised no one has already? I wonder why Zeus decided to make timing gears instead?

[Snagger]

[quote=tony109;1105101]


To be fair though, you knew you had a problem before you left the UK so it didn't just happen when stuck in the middle of nowhere. Although you managed to fix the symtoms when there, if you had a rubber belt engine say for example a 200 tdi ;) then you probably wouldn't have left with that problem evident. Then again, not many people would consider starting an expedition without rectifying such an issue first, regardless of whether the timing was driven by a belt, chain or gears - most would fix it rather than wait for it to fail in the middle of a remote frozen desert. At least a timing belt only takes two hours to change, if that...

[tony109]

[quote=dsj1979;1105636]Then again, not many people would consider starting an expedition without rectifying such an issue first, regardless of whether the timing was driven by a belt, chain or gears - most would fix it rather than wait for it to fail in the middle of a remote frozen desert. At least a timing belt only takes two hours to change, if that...

This is exactly the point im making..
I didn't have an issue to rectify with the engine before I left.. The engine appeared very good, it performed well and it didn't breath oil. So even if I'd had time to do a full engine rebuild before I left, I saw no need to.
Alot of unexpected things can and do happen. If the vehicle or engine can still be run safely and 'carry on regardless' dispite there being a problem, it certainly increases the options you have available.. If I had a timing belt, running the engine in that state would still have been needed, but the risk of total engine failure would have muliplied.. Id have run out of spare timing belts very quickly too. How well does a belt really cope with oil, or grit and sand for that matter?.. At least a chain remains fully sealed from the elements

[SteveAllart]

Slightly off the current subject, I love the 130 6wheeler that I've seen videos and pics of it going across the desert, fab :)