biofuel in landy

[monkeyfeind]

Want to run my little girl on veg oil have read a bit about it seen an article in magazine that used heating sytem to help with viscosity and also the bloke on its not easy being green BBc2 who used old chippy oil but had to filter and refine, dont want to fit fuel heating system and the chippy oil seems a bit too much work. Just thinking of buying sunflower oil from supermarket and have heard you can just add 1 part meth spirits to 5 part veg oil with no probs.Would this come recommended?????

Also what if i just used 50/50 veg oil to diesil would it mix or is it likely to seperate and cause snags. :rolleyes:

[captaindorko]

I don't have any first hand experience with biofuels but I do plan on running the landy on it soon. From what I've read, You basically have 2 choices Biodiesel which takes alot of refining but gels at a lower temperature and can be mixed with regular diesel, and Straight vegetable oil (SVO) or waste Vegetable oil (WVO). Neither SVO or WVO require much of a refining process, you filter it and remove water. The drawback is that it can't be mixed with regular diesel and gels at a higher temperature so you need to warm it up before you run off it. Personally i was planning on running WVO and building something similar to what they sell at www.frybrid.com (http://www.frybrid.com)

[chris_debian]

Anybody see the news article in LRO, regarding ethanol. Apparently all fuel from 2008 will have to have 5 (0r 10%, I can't remember) ethanol in it. The powers that be think that vehicles will be fine....hmmm, not sure about my 72 Series 3!

Chris.

[conkers]

Anybody see the news article in LRO, regarding ethanol. Apparently all fuel from 2008 will have to have 5 (0r 10%, I can't remember) ethanol in it. The powers that be think that vehicles will be fine....hmmm, not sure about my 72 Series 3!

Chris.

Surely they must mean for petrol engines.
The french have had 5% biodiesel in their diesel for a few years now. i've also run my SIII on 100% biodiesel it ran ok but a mix with normal diesel gave better performance.

[chris_debian]

My apologies, they did mean petrol.

[chris_debian]

Silly question, but with bio-diesel looking more and more likely to be available in some form in the future, is it possible to put a TD5 engine in a Series 3 petrol?

A long-shot, I know!

Cheers,

Chris.

[antonios]

right,

SIII diesel landys love SVO, the run fine on it. I went to greece and back with a mix of veg and diesel last summer. Now days I make biodiesel and my not_very_scientific opinion is that it runs better and is less noisy.

[monkeyfeind]

did you just mix the diesel with svo in the tank or did you filter first also what percentage did you use.Would be interested in knowing more about your method for making biodiesel sounds like a winner.

[antonios]

I was usually mixing the SVO it in the tank, typically 50% blend. In my opinion using less svo doesnt make much economical sense. Ie you dont save much money by doing it. In the summer you can use more SVO too but it is a bit more smokey (white smoke that smells like chips)


I think if you want to blend them properly you will have to warm up the veg oil and stir it up with dinosaur oil for a while otherwise the make two distinctive layers. Same with biodiesel I believe.

Making biodiesel is not that hard althought there is so much information that you have to digest that makes it look like an overwhelming task.

A good place to start is here : http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/

Both have their advantages: biodiesel runs on any diesel car not only oldy simple diesels like svo but takes much more energy and some nasty chemicals to make (methanol and caustic soda).


In both cases you have to register with HMCE to pay tax for your fuel otherwise you are breaking the law.
Biodiesel has a 20 pence tax discount.
There are rumors that the registration scheme is to be scrapped for small producers though.

take care.
a

[nemchenk]

I think if you want to blend them properly you will have to warm up the veg oil and stir it up with dinosaur oil for a while otherwise the make two distinctive layers.

That's interesting -- when I did my research on this (admittedly, over a year ago) I thought that the accepted wisdom was to run your engine on a progressively-stronger SVO/DERV mix at first, to make sure all was going well. e.g. run with 25% SVO or WVO for a week, then 50%, then 75%, etc.

That would seem to imply they mix fine?


nemchenk

[antonios]

You are probably right here nemchenk, maybe my assumption holds true for biodiesel and petrodiesel although I never do that either ( I just mix them in the tank)

[phil bolger]

Dear All,

I am just getting into the idea of Biofuel. I am not technically minded so if someone can answer the following questions it would really help me.
1. If I use old oil from the man down the chippy what type of filter do I need to employ in order to properly filter it and do i need to bother adding other stuff (if so what) to it or can I mix it with 40% diesel?
2. Does the same apply for normal veg oil or is the process even simpler?
3. Does anyone regularly use these fuels and what is the MPG compared with 100% diesel.
Thanks

Phil

[kincraig1]

hello, i had a very old nissan primera 2.0 litre diesel as my run as my daily runaround which to be honest i didn't care about, i used to buy brand new veg oil from bookers and throw it in mixed with a little diesel not much but i believed it thined it out, it ran the same as with diesel, no differance whatsoever in performance or mpg, it was a cracking car. even though i drove over 100 miles aday and it never let me down i didn't dare do the same in my TD5 too expensive to fix if i damaged it. i currently have a 2001 isuzu trooper which i run on purchased bio diesel from a place in york i have forgotten name it is 96p a litre inc tax and again runs fine no differance

[Richie_asg1]

The problems that may happen on older series diesels, and older vehicles, is that the injector pumps cannot cope with a higher viscosity of cold veg oil. Mixing should be fine in tank for these. Look regularly for any seeps from the seals - particularly the throttle and stop on series vehicles.

When funds permit, I'm plumbing in a 2.0tdi which is well suited to it. I've already put a second tank hanger and tank in there, and will fit an outside filler - on the left for veg, leaving the one on the right for dino-diesel.

There are a lot of good filter units around. By CAV and copies by ford and peugeot. Some are heated, and contain a primer pump on top.

A smashing little heat exchanger is available for around £5 - and is a combi-boiler spare by valliant!

12V solenoid valves or 6 way motorised pollark valve is also needed for the change over, and an adjustable timer is available from Maplin as a kit.

[candpdoyle]

I ran my 2.25 diesel on all sorts of mixes:D but always returned to wvo because it is free:D... winter can be a pain as starting gets a little difficult on higher mixes... 50/50 seemed to be ok through winter once i had new glowplugs:eek:

I did have issues with seals and went through a couple of injector pumps, BUT... it is a series and spares are cheap if you look in the right place and are not scared of old secondhand parts:D...

Mine seemed to return around 28mpg on 80/20 (wvo/derv) running no overdrive and 205's

My main trouble was dirt/mould and what not that grows in the fuel tank... so lots of filters and sedimentors are recomended if you go the wvo route:D:D

Chris

[boulder_rover]

I burn 10 gallons veg oil mixed with 1 gallon paint thinner/mineral spirits/acetone (whatever I can find) to thin it down. Works great in my 2.5 NAD. I have in tank heater to heat up the oil at the fuel pickup (to ease the strain on the fuel pump), and then a glow plug heater that heats the fuel up prior to entering the fuel pump. the glow plug heater is exactly that- a CH63 glowplug in a cast iron T fitting. The fuel passes over the glow plug and heats up to about 150 deg F. All of this is on a solenoid that only turns the heaters on when the shutoff solenoid is off (or on as it were). I have an electric fuel pump.

I also have an HHO/Browns Gas generator. This thing works like a champ on this engine. I feel like I have a turbo sometimes.

[scruffytruck]

Been looking at this for a little while, only thing to be aware of is finding a cheap supplier - there ain't much difference in price between a litre of DERV and a litre of veg oil. I think the suppliers are catching on.

[candpdoyle]

Boulder rover

I have been waiting to hear from someone using the hho magafta!!! so it is real and an elaborate con?? i have been looking at water4gas with great interest!! please tell me more?? did you use their ebooks and build your own system or someone elses's?


Cheers
Chris

[candpdoyle]

scruffytruck...

you need to dind waste oil mate:D new oil is no longer viable at the current prices... i can and sometimes do use my local bio supplier for fuel to clean everything out as he only charges 90p litre... cheaper han most cooking oil at the moment...

now my new problem is my new series 111 is a petrol:eek: busy researching ethanol or an hho conversion or maybe both:D

Chris

[boulder_rover]

I used scrap stainless tube and rod to make mine. There is tons of info on the web, that is probably the best way to go. Do a search in youtube for HHO, that is best. Main thing is not to blow yourself up, this is potent stuff when you start to make it in quantity. The reason to burn it with veg oil is to ensure complete combustion of the veg oil that is probably entering the hot spot with a less than ideal spray pattern. My emissions are much better (although not clear as you can imagine with a 2.5 NAD). I need the 2.5" exhaust now to get that last little bit of power out of this engine.

We should start a thread on HHO for series landies??

[candpdoyle]

cheers dude..

this has really got me stoked, and i have just found a cheaper version of the ebook... so have downloaded it and will be working through it over the next few days.... will keep everyone updated and if it works will try selling the ebook on ebay:D apparantly there is no patent and it is freely available to pass on to anyone

Cant wait to be able to drive whenever i want:D

[boulder_rover]

One thing to be aware of, to create enough HHO to power your truck with out gasoline would be tough to engineer (it COULD be done). However, a well constructed unit that is sized properly could produce enough HHO gas to improve your mileage 20-40% from what I am hearing. Old landies are great vehicles for this type of modification- No O2 sensors, etc.

[candpdoyle]

yeah... just been reading through and they reckon around 45% increase in mileage:D the set up looks really complicated though:eek: supposed to need no special tools:eek: looking at some of the engineering to make the generator, you guy's stateside must have much better equipped home tools than me:D adjustable disc cutters??? drill press?? carbon tipped drill bits and all sorts:rolleyes: gonna need to learn some electronics as well for the circiut board and toroidal coil:eek:

should be a good litle project though with very worth while results if i get it right:rolleyes:

Chris

[g7jtk]

So what is available to replace petrol? and where do I get it from?

[candpdoyle]

I believe some people are having good results with bio ethanol:eek: , but where they are buying it and how much it costs i have no idea YET :D

you can distil it yourself if you have access to the equipment and enough veg matter:D

Chris

[cadfael]

This is really interesting guys, as I had an e-mail the other day about HHO!
Had a brief surf on the subject and although it looks a bit snake-oily at first, there are simply too many people producing bits and kits....and it's in the public domain, so no patents to worry about!:D:D
I'm absolutely cr@p at the elecktrickery bits, but the rest should be straightforward.
Look forward to hearing more about this...with pics please!!
Doubtless the tax-man will want to get this filthy mitts on it somehow!!:eek:
Mike.

[stubbz]

so is biofuel that is purchased from a biofuel station going to be ok for my series 2a 21/4 diesil as everyone else seems to be making there own etc, I am mege worried about killing my pump and any rubber bits and bobs...
Kind Regards
Stubbz

[Nolan]

so is biofuel that is purchased from a biofuel station going to be ok for my series 2a 21/4 diesil as everyone else seems to be making there own etc, I am mege worried about killing my pump and any rubber bits and bobs...
Kind Regards
Stubbz

Stubbz... I have been reading up on BioDiesel for the 200TDi engine. Everything I've read seems to say that it's fine and so long as you check the fuel pump and seals and change the filter then there's no problem.

How did you get on with yours?

[stubbz]

well I have been running my old landy on bio for over 3 months, it smokes less and I seem to get better mpg and at 89p a litre its worth it...
Will keep you updated.
Stubbz

[Richie_asg1]

Thanks for the update.

Just as an aside for those doing the Hydrogen mix, Has anyone considered using all the scrap Aluminium (pie dishes, foil, cans) in Caustic soda to produce hydrogen?

I've figured a way to make hydrogen 'on demand', and the filtering to take out caustic byproducts etc, plus the interlocks needed to make it safe - if anyone's interested ?

Just folowing along the lines of - better to use what I can get free for fuel for my landy!

[cadfael]

:D You can do the same using methane (cowfarts!) following the Jean Pain method of composting, or building a bio-digester ..loads of them on u-tube, all shapes/sizes!!:D:D
Mike.

[Nolan]

The problems that may happen on older series diesels, and older vehicles, is that the injector pumps cannot cope with a higher viscosity of cold veg oil. Mixing should be fine in tank for these. Look regularly for any seeps from the seals - particularly the throttle and stop on series vehicles.

When funds permit, I'm plumbing in a 2.0tdi which is well suited to it. I've already put a second tank hanger and tank in there, and will fit an outside filler - on the left for veg, leaving the one on the right for dino-diesel.

There are a lot of good filter units around. By CAV and copies by ford and peugeot. Some are heated, and contain a primer pump on top.

A smashing little heat exchanger is available for around £5 - and is a combi-boiler spare by valliant!

12V solenoid valves or 6 way motorised pollark valve is also needed for the change over, and an adjustable timer is available from Maplin as a kit.

Hi Richie... I recently bought a '92 110 Defender with a 200TDi engine (only 85k on the clock) and I've been looking into running it on Bio Diesel.

Since you (and others I have asked) seem to know the Pros & Cons of Bio and what the viscosity does to the fuel pump, seals etc. and the waxing issues in cold weather etc. what should I be looking out for when I start using it? My questions are:

1. Do I need to change the fuel line seals first?
2. What is the ideal pump for a 200TDi that will cope with Bio?
3. What's the worst fuel pump for it?
4. Is there a particular fuel filter heater that helps with the waxing issue (i've read electric ones are better than ones that use coolant)
5. How often should I be looking to change the fuel filter?
6. Is it essential to have a mix of Fossil Diesel during winter months to prevent clogging?
7. What's the best mix 50/50 - 70/30 or 80/20 ?
8. Is there a thinning agent to add to 100% BIO that will stop the waxing process and clogging?

Hope you can put me in the right direction :)

Thanks

[Richie_asg1]

I'm no expert, but maybe I've read more than you so far.

There should be no problems with you using a 50% mix of Biodiesel with dino diesel with your current set up.
If you don't have any leaks or weeps in the first month, then go for stronger mixes up to 100% biodiesel.

Biodiesel can have a perculiar effect on rubber seals and any lining or varnish in your fuel tank. This is because it is a very good detergent / degreaser as well.

If you get the chance, swap your fuel filter for a longer one with a glass sedimentor, or fit a sedimentor with visible bowl, or a clear additional fuel filter.

If you run a veg oil mix then you can see any problems developing.

Next is to add some form of heater. A coolant heater is ideal and will improve your MPG anyway. Some French vans and VW's have them anyway.

If you are heating the fuel before the filter, you will have less problems with cold weather waxing as well.

If you want to run Veg in larger proportions, then you really need an electric heater as well before the injector pump.

And finally, you can have a dedicated tank for each fuel, and use a valve to switch over, with a little control so you do it at the right times.

[Nolan]

Thanks for this info Richie... very helpful. I'm getting a 12v elec and coolant heated fuel filter and a glass sedimentor before the filter to keep and eye on consistency of the fuel.
I am also going to start processing myself as it's the only true way to guarantee quality as you're far more likely to throw away a bad batch when it's your own engine it's going in (unlike large suppliers who often sell 2nd grade fuel). I'll keep everyone posted as to how I get on.

- Nolan

[micheal]

The one thing that I will say is that bio is better but make sure thy the injectors lift pump and in genral that the fuel system is up to using bio or any other alternative fuels as running them can give problems if theybaint up to scratch