84 inch Hybrid, is this the right section?

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi,
I have a 1971 84 inch hybrid 3.9. I'm posting a few photos here. Looks like no one posts to this section, I know others have hybrids & conversions but I can't find them on this forum. I've posted some of these on another Rover Forum so I hope I'm not making you guys nuts.
From Methuen, MA USA
Paul:cheers:

[Mud-Bud]

Nice truck! I wish people would stop posting pictures of hybrids and showing me them, as I keep getting urges to build one now:D What made you decide on 84" as the wheelbase btw plz?

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Mud Bud,

I wanted the feeling that I was cheating! I used to do the trials course at the British Invasion in Stowe VT, USA. It was open to all Land Rovers. I have entered with my SIIA before it was the Hybrid, and my 93 RR swb / air suspension. I did very well and came in the top five a few times with both, but one club had a SI 80 inch and it didn't matter who was driving it, they always came back for finals. At least in finals everyone had to drive the same Rover. Anyway I wanted it short, to get around off road. It actually would have fit a bit better if I cut it down to 80 inches. I'm very happy with it's handling as it is, both off road and at highway speeds approaching 90 mph.

It's a project I recommend, very satisfying, though I never thought I'd be driving it! I'm retired and have the time it took to finish otherwise I'm not sure it ever would be on the road.

:guiness:

Paul

[Mud-Bud]

Ah kl! What engine is it (and before someone says, i know its a 3.9:D )?

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Mud Bud,

Yes it is a 3.9. The RR was a 1987 with a 3.5. Just 12,000 miles before I bought it the engine was replaced with a new 3.9 long block. When I did the hybrid I removed all the computer controls and cats, installed an Edelbrock manifold and Holly 4 barrel, I think 360 cfm.

Other than a 3.9 all I can say is Rover?

Thanks,

Paul

[Mud-Bud]

Kl thanx for that, just interested to see if you'd fitted a small block ford or anything

[BadPenny]

Hi Paul,
Interesting machine! I've got my Sll in tiny bits at the moment and am toying with the idea of a forward opening bonnet (hood! :0)) Can you post a picture of the hinge arrangment?

Regards, Tony

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Tony,

Before you do this to a Series truck think long and hard. If your Series is stock the Radiator surround and the breakfast with the wings all bolted together and to the bulkhead gives the front end of the Series it's strength. You would need to have support from the radiator to the bulkhead strong enough to hold the tilt front end when it is hanging open. You could build a frame to give the front section strength . If you want the wings to be bolted to the breakfast and open all together then you would have to remove the front bumper in front of the wings.

This photo shows it closer. On my project I had to raise the grille to have clearance for the Radiator. I welded two pieces of one inch square tube under the breakfast and welded two pins with spacers behind them to these the bottom front. I welded a plate from one side of the frame to the other, under the radiator about six inches wide. to this I welded two pieces of pipe for the other half of the hinge. The left side of the right hinge has a pin that can be removed so the whole front end can be lifted off. Notice that the rear of my wings have been cut to bring them back for wheel clearance.

I'm getting carried away! Sorry:BigSorry: I hope I've helped. If you have your Series in pieces, you can get it back together!

Paul :guiness:

[BadPenny]

Hi Paul,
Thanks, Thats pretty much as I imagined it. I just wasn't sure if it was worth the effort of building a sub frame to hold the bonnet/grill/wing assembly to hold the whole thing together or weather the structure was firm enough on its own just bolted together, if you see what I mean! Good set of pictures by the way!
Regards, Tony

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Tony,

The bonnet, hood, and wings are strong enough bolted and riveted together. It's all plenty stiff with the front resting on the hinges and the back of the hood resting on the water channel of the bulkhead. You would only need a sub frame if you wanted the center not to tilt with the nose. I cut the back part of the breakfast off (the part that holds the radiator) as I used an aluminum radiator.

If you are doing a Hybrid it could be your easiest way to build.

Thanks Tony,

Paul

[P00DLE]

nice looking truck, lots of us here run modified trucks, my 2a has tic paras and a 175 bhp 300 ft/lb turbo diesel and goes like stink while still being awesome off road. you would have to spend serious money to build a truck that could beat it.

[BadPenny]

I cut the back part of the breakfast off (the part that holds the radiator) as I used an aluminum radiator.
Paul

Yea, I've got most of it figured out ok, I've also got plenty of spares, theres any number of old landies laying in the paddocks around here. Iv'e spotted three in the last week and collected another a month ago. I'm beginning to look like the place LRs go to die.

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Tony,

How come this forum posts your age and not mine? I'm 57. Looks like we both have lots of time to play with these Rovers. Will we ever grow up?! I hope not. It's great to have lots of spares! I had to give up most of mine when I moved a few years ago.

Hi Poodle,

Thanks for the complement. We don't have too many altered Rovers over here. Most people believe that they are worth too much to screw with them. To a point they are right, the series can bring good money today, as you know no more are being made. Years ago I used to see Rovers in back yards people would give away but no more.

When the frame on my series was getting so bad I couldn't repair it any longer and the body on one of my Range Rovers was falling off the frame i couldn't resist combining the two. Oh to have all those Rovers around! It must be nice. The diesel conversion is a good one, we only see a few, and not often.

Last summer I sold a Sunbeam Tiger. That was a car I did not want to mess with! That car was worth too much!

Paul

[BadPenny]

Hi Paul, I would imagine that the rear bottom corner of the fender would foul on the bulkhead as it went down? Does it?

Tony

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Tony,
The front has just enough clearance. I've had just the front wheel up on a boulder about a foot and a half high and it doesn't touch. I don't think the spring could compress enough to let the wheel travel high enough. I also have new front springs to install that should raise it another inch or two. The rear is another story.:( On this same boulder the opposite rear hit the wing, so I need to cut it up a few more inches. New rear springs might help there also.
Paul

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Tony,

I messed up my reply to your question something awful! I read it three times and posted the above reply before I understood what you asked! Sorry! I must be getting old.:(

Now I'll answer the question you asked.

No the wing does not hit the bulkhead when the front end is being closed. I welded two pieces of one inch square tubing to the bottom of the breakfast and welded the hinges to these. Raising the hinge point two inches puts the pivot point at the same level as the lowest point of the wings, so the rear of the wing doesn't reach the bulkhead until it is closed.

Sorry about the above post. I tried to edit it but messed it up!

Paul
I need a :beers:

[BadPenny]

Thanks Paul, I have just realised that the wing dosn't hit. I must be getting old and even more confused! Gonna give it a go. Although my breakfast is remote from the front of the wings, 1961 Sll, so I will have to fabricate somethng a little different.
Tony

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Tony,

My breakfast used to be back from the wings also but I cut the back of the wings because I did not want to spend the money on a Defender front end. This also makes the whole truck that much shorter.

I think you can make it work if you remove the ends of the front bumper.

Keep me informed!

Thanks Tony,

Paul

[BadPenny]

So the wings were cut shorter and moved backwards and the breakfast is in the original position? Where did you removed the four inch section of chassis from?

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Tony,
I cut the rear off the wings to clear the tires and have the front as close to even as I could. A poor man's Defender. :)

The build is based on the breakfast and radiator. The radiator was positioned close to the engine fan (later replaced with a shroud and two electric fans) and the radiator frame was built on the chassis. I only used the face of the breakfast because I needed to use an after market aluminum radiator. Neither the Series or Range Rover one would fit. After the breakfast was positioned I put the bonnet on the breakfast and found the position where the bulkhead needed to be, welded on two bulkhead outriggers and went from there.

The truck is based on a Range Rover, now weighs in 1,000 pounds lighter than the Range Rover! I cut 16 inches out of the frame and had the rear drive shaft shortened 16 inches and balanced. I also lowered the rear transmission mount about 2 +- inches for a better shaft angle.

These photos show the RR frame before the cut, the piece cut out, and after putting it together. It was cut at a 45 with an overlap tab left, then welded and finally plated, welded again with new bolts for transmission mount.

Any time I get carried away please let me know.:D

Paul

before cut


piece cut out


another shot of piece


two after welding together




frame after build

[BadPenny]

Hi Paul, Now I'm with you!! I didn't realise that you had started with a RR! Now it makes sense!

[Paul / Methuen]

Glad to help Tony!

Paul

[Keeper_of_Tess]

I'm thoroughly impressed.

My hybrid project is still at the stripping-down-the-donor-Range-Rover stage...

I don't suppose, Paul, that you'd be free to pop round and do my chassis for me?
:)

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the kind words.

I would love to come over there to help but the ticket from MA USA would cost a bit too much.

Have some faith in yourself. Take your time and think it out before you cut and I'm sure you can get it done.

The RR frame is the same width where the bulkhead outriggers need to go, and the stock Series front bumper will fit on the RR frame. You might find these few photos helpful. They show the Series outrigger and one of the fixings for the rear tub. Things were made cleaner before final assembly.

Paul

[Keeper_of_Tess]

Thanks for the pointers. I shall book-mark this thread to pore over when it comes time to end the destructive phase and start construction.

In the UK, chopping the chassis has one or two legal implications. It can be done but it adds a layer of complexity.

I am tempted to cut the chassis back to 88" and simply fit a stock series III body. Then again, if I stick to 100", the Range Rover donor is supplying enough original bits that I could probably use its identity without ending up in trouble with the law...

...whichever way I go, the mounting of the bulkhead is going to be the same.

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Nick,

We are lucky that the Range Rover frame is the same width. I couldn't believe it when I measured. The bulkhead outriggers fit great, though they needed to be higher.

Some states over here, most notably California will give us a hard time also with registering a Hybrid. In MA where I live, I simply used the vin number I always used, the one on the bulkhead plate and the door frame. In fact I never took it off the road, kept it registered and insured as a 1971 SIIA Land Rover. When I had it inspected (I think you call it MOT) I told the station it is now a V8. It's old enough that it only has a safety inspection so not having the cats is not a problem!

Paul

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi,

I'm adding a few more of my Hybrid. :D

Thanks,

Paul

Front bumper, both hooks removable, good jack points, full size receiver.


Air horns under wing.


Bulkhead with RR steering wheel.


Rear of RR frame cut off.


Added support on each side of bulkhead attached to shock tower.


Rear of rear tire is 6 inches from rear of crossmember.


This last one is just beautiful! :D My Wife didn't even leave me!:rolleyes:

[BadPenny]

Hi Paul, The pictures are a great help but my grill is set back from the front of the wings so I am going to have to build a plate on which to mount it to allow it to hinge properly. I've just put the motor in the chassis and mounted the bulkhead so I have a way to go yet!
Regards, tony

[BadPenny]

I see that you have cut away the inner parts of the wings, what stops the mud flying all over the engine compartment?

Tony

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Paul, The pictures are a great help but my grill is set back from the front of the wings so I am going to have to build a plate on which to mount it to allow it to hinge properly. I've just put the motor in the chassis and mounted the bulkhead so I have a way to go yet!
Regards, tony

Hi Tony,

That's a great idea. The only tough part will be the weight. If the hinges are that far forward then the weight you will have to lift will be that much more. If you don't mount your tire on the hood that should more than make up for that. If you either built a new front bumper that doesn't extend beyond the breakfast or cut your existing one the hinges could stay at the grille. The weight of the front overhand helps as a counterbalance. Only a suggestion.:D

Are you using a Series coil sprung frame or dropping a V8 in your existing frame? I'd like to know how much room you have.

I haven't gone through serious mud yet but my plan is to hang something like rubber roofing on removable hooks and hook them with some small springs at the bottom. It's a set-up used on big trucks. At least the rain doesn't bother anything.

Post a photo or two or send them to me, I would love to see your progress!


Thanks Tony,

Paul:cheers:

[BadPenny]

Hi Paul
My lr is bog standard with the original 1961 petrol motor in it. I have stripped it to the chassis and am rebuilding it bit by bit, thorough but low cost. I just thought it might be handy to have the bonnet fold out of the way.
and I'm not a fanatic for originality.
I have reasonably fat tyres that don't sit to well on the bonnet, at least not if I want to see where I'm going! Hard top with rear door so I will build a rear wheel hanger on the back. I'm inspired by your machine to build a special so I'm on the look out for a RR. Oddly enough there is at this very moment a series running on Sky TV building a 110 inch out of a RR doner with a LR body on. I have any number of LR bits around the shop including a 109 body shell so I might use that. Gotta finish this one first!! Then I've got a couple of Indians and a '57 Pontiac to work on. Need more time!! (and money)
Regards, Tony

[BadPenny]

Also, the only real difference between your hood hinge and mine is that the grill on mine would lift up with the wings rather than hinge from its bottom edge. The leading edge of the wings stay in the same relative position as on yours. The extra weight would be minimal.

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Paul
My lr is bog standard with the original 1961 petrol motor in it. I have stripped it to the chassis and am rebuilding it bit by bit, thorough but low cost. I just thought it might be handy to have the bonnet fold out of the way.
and I'm not a fanatic for originality.
I have reasonably fat tyres that don't sit to well on the bonnet, at least not if I want to see where I'm going! Hard top with rear door so I will build a rear wheel hanger on the back. I'm inspired by your machine to build a special so I'm on the look out for a RR. Oddly enough there is at this very moment a series running on Sky TV building a 110 inch out of a RR doner with a LR body on. I have any number of LR bits around the shop including a 109 body shell so I might use that. Gotta finish this one first!! Then I've got a couple of Indians and a '57 Pontiac to work on. Need more time!! (and money)
Regards, Tony

Hi Tony,

It should work great! With some thinking and work I think you might even manage to keep most of the inner wing protection. You will also have a one of a kind with tremendous access to everything.

Please keep me posted!

The 109 would be a great match with a RR! If you can find the time it would be a nice project!

Sky TV?

My Dad had an Indian in 1926. It was an in line four with the cylinders in line from front to rear. This was when Indian had merged with ACE. I used to have a photo of my Dad standing behind it. It had the old Indian sign that looked like a backwards swastika. Over the years I have only seen the v twin.

Thanks again Tony,

Paul:cheers:

[BadPenny]

Hi Tony,

Sky TV?


Pay per month tv. The free to air tv in NZ is so loaded with ads (up to 20 minutes an hour) (and the fact that there are only three channels)) that it is unwatchable.

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Tony,

I don't receive that one on my Direct TV.:(

Too bad, I'd like to see the coverage.

Good luck Tony and again, keep me posted!

Cheers,

Paul

[Rage Rover]

Nice , very very nice hybrid there :) . I like the front end idea which is something very different indeed .
See attached some pics of my 90 inch RR chasis hybrid with 88 inch series 2 body on top . The coversion had been done in the most basic of ways when i bought it - since then it's been just about re built :D .
I apreciate the problems with rad clearance etc - i wish i had bitten the bullet and moved the engine and gearbox back a fair bit - it would have made the rad/engine clearance issue much easier . You will see i have also gone with a 90 bonnet as the std series one was not long enough to cover the rad - i had a strip of conveyor belt rubber over it for a few years :D .
The building of hybrids has slowed down a fair bit now unfortunetely with 90's becoming cheaper . The hybrid still remains however as the ultimate hobby Land Rover :) .

[Paul / Methuen]

Nice , very very nice hybrid there :) . I like the front end idea which is something very different indeed .
See attached some pics of my 90 inch RR chasis hybrid with 88 inch series 2 body on top . The coversion had been done in the most basic of ways when i bought it - since then it's been just about re built :D .
I apreciate the problems with rad clearance etc - i wish i had bitten the bullet and moved the engine and gearbox back a fair bit - it would have made the rad/engine clearance issue much easier . You will see i have also gone with a 90 bonnet as the std series one was not long enough to cover the rad - i had a strip of conveyor belt rubber over it for a few years :D .
The building of hybrids has slowed down a fair bit now unfortunetely with 90's becoming cheaper . The hybrid still remains however as the ultimate hobby Land Rover :) .

Hi,

Thanks for your complements! :)

Nice looking Rover! Are your wheels offset more than a stock RR wheel? My tires just hit the frame at full lock so I need to set the adjustment to limit the range a little.

I haven't seen many Hybrids, I have a feeling more people start them but don't finish, at least over here. Series trucks are not easy to find and ALL D90s are LOTS of money! I'm sure if I was younger and still working for a living I either never would have finished or it would have taken much longer than eighteen months to do so. But as you have done almost a complete rebuild, I have never stopped trying to improve mine. I'm even thinking of painting it again, I'd like it a darker blue.:D It is a great hobby, I feel a little like Frankenstein and my Hybrid is my monster!

With your 90 hood everything must fit a lot easier? At the time I wish I could have found a cheap D90 hood but now that it's done I'm very happy I figured it out. I didn't move the engine back but worked from the Radiator back. This meant I needed to have it shorter than the Series IIA was. I went for 84 but should have gone with 80 simply because the rear wheel wells would not need to be cut as much. But that's in hind sight. My approach and departure angles are both about 50 degrees, so I'm good with that.

Post a photo of how things fit under the bonnet if you could.

Thanks again,

Paul:cheers:

[Rage Rover]

Hi Paul , thanks for the comments as well :) .Frankenstein right enough would be the best way to describe our machines :D .
I'm away from home working for a few weeks but i'll get some pics sorted out at the end of June . I do not have a front rad suround as such - hence the triangulation you see in front of the radiator grill . The radiator is from a V8 90 with the outlets etc turned to suit the V8 - it is pretty tight hence why i couldnt have any real bracing under the hood . Initially the rad was from a small Nissan and it actually worked ok believe it or not :) . Other than that it's just the std series inner wings .
The wheels are 8 inch wide with a zero offset - i've had to bring the stops up a fair bit or the tyres touch the radius arms . I wanted a larger offset but struggled to get any - i don't really want to use spacers . The tyres are 35x11.5x16 Simex and i am just using heavy duty Police Spec Rear springs front and back .I had to cut the wheel arches to get clearance and you will notive them moved up the way . I raised a portion of the rear wheel boxes 4 inches to get clearance - i thought that was better than a body lift or raising the suspension :) .
Yes the 90 hood would have made things easier for you . What i wanted myself was the early series 2 grille with headlights in the centre and none in the wings - i really like that old look . Had i shifted the engine back i could have done it but the way it is now it would need to be bolt on tractor headlights or something :rolleyes: .I have a 90 grille in the garage but i wanted a hybrid not a clone :D .
Cheers , gordon

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Gordon,

The radiator center section looks like a nice job, clean!

I guess if you wanted you could put just a galvanized grille from a Series, either one, a piece of flat sheet with a cutout like a Series to mount it on. Since the lights won't fit, the late grille without light holes might look better. You might gain enough room for the lights if you took the engine fan off, moved the radiator as close to the engine as you can, then put a set of pusher fans with a shroud? Not worth the work though. I'm thinking out loud.:D I wouldn't bother moving it if I were you, it looks great the way it is.

My tires are 265X75 16 or 32" Goodyear Wrangler MT/R. I think this size is what most D90s have over here. The body sits high enough so the front has no clearance issues but I need to cut the rear up to the seat box, I don't think I'll need to go any higher. I put new RR front springs on that I picked up on Ebay @ $50 for the pair. The rear are 1987 vintage RR so I would like to replace those with some to raise the rear about two inches.

How is your engine set up for fuel, does it have injection, or carb? Cat converters?

Looking forward to more photos,:D

Thanks,
Paul:cheers:

[Rage Rover]

Aye paul , the engine is a 3.5 v8 with and Edelbrock 500 carb - fancy cam and hp pistons , mallory dizzy and all that good stuff :) . Doesnt really seem to be a great deal better than it was before with the SU's and std stuff :rolleyes: . It can go a bit but with all the massive tyres etc i've just advanced the ignition for low rpm power ;) .
I've got twin electric fans sucking and they are almost touching the water pump pulley bolts . If i get another good set of wings i could always just blank the lights off and paint them at my leisure - but i spend so much time working on it i think i should leave it be for a while :D .
Spring wise you shouldn't have a problem . If you are not using it offroad then you could always make up spacers to go under the spring platforms . Otherwise beware that some of the 2 inch lifted items are as stiff as hell :( and no good offroad . We get the police spec springs here for about £12 and they give a 1 inch plus lift , are nice and supple but tend to sag after a year or so . They are cheap however :) .
A couple of pics i had on my computer at work - you'll see the old set up with the series bonnet ( hood!) , previous wings and 265 tyres.
Cheers , gordon .

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Gordon,

Nice photos! I'll look for more when you get home!

Most of the hot rod parts are not easily available in the States. We would have to look for 60s Buick parts. I have I think a 360cfm Holly and did away with all computer controls and cats. The RR I used was originally a 3.5 but the previous owner put a brand new 3.9 in 12,000 miles before I bought it from him. It now has less than 30,000 and runs great!

I know what you mean when you say give it some time off. As much fun as it is to work on and the satisfaction when you make progress changing things for the better, it's sometimes better to just drive it for a while and have some fun. Even wash it now and then! :D

I have always enjoyed off roading but I prefer not to damage my Rover. It's a fine line, I want my Rover to do what others can't do but with no damage. Two ARB lockers will should help with this quest if I can control myself.

I'll look at some vendors and check into springs for the rear. I don't want them to be too stiff, I drive this every day.

Thanks for the info & photos,

Paul:beers:

[Rage Rover]

Aye Paul , i need to give my neighbours a bit of time off as well :D . The racket coming from my garden can be horrendous at times :o .

I hear the Old Man Emu springs get a good write up but you're now that much lighter you'll need to take care when ordering - you don't want them too stiff for offroad or you lose all that articulation .

I wish i'd bitten the bullet and bought a 4.6 instead of getting all that work done on my engine . By the time i paid for the boring and grinding , all the pistons / shells / cam / followers and stage 1 heads i would have been not far off a 4.6 :) . But i supose that's the way it goes when you build something - hindsight is a great thing :) .

Cheers , gordon .

[Paul / Methuen]

Hi Gordon,

Being retired I only work on my Rover during the week so most of the grinding and air tool noise is when most of my neighbors are working. The mess is another story, my Wife never complained once! I built this in my driveway and what a mess! Afterward a few of my neighbors told me I was a topic of many conversations in their house, mostly saying things like "he will never drive that thing!":eek: I can't imagine what else they said! Yes I can!

I'll see what I can find for springs in the fall unless I come across some sooner. I might go to the junk yard but I only know of one with any Rovers, one RR and two Discoveries. I'm wondering if Disco springs might have more travel than the 87 RR ones in the rear? I'm going to bring my Rover to Roverfest in Vermont in August and I want to see how it does on the trails and the trials course.

Your Rover must be quick! I know how quick mine is at 1,000 lbs lighter than the RR was and mine is stock but for the fuel and exhaust system! I love passing a J**p doing 85, love the looks. I can't help chasing them down on the highway!:D

I would think you have an engine that should last years. What I have read is that the 3.5 - 3.9 are very durable and might be the best Rover ever made. I'm hoping that's the case anyway!

Paul:cheers: