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Thread: Defender Starter Motor Problem

  1. #1
    Trainee MattG's Avatar
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    Default Defender Starter Motor Problem

    Hi

    I tried driving through a rather deep ford (river) today and, well the results wern't good. It stalled with water at the same level as the sidelights. (yeah I know Im an idiot)

    I managed to get it out and tried starting her but just get a clunk then nothig. Other times it goes "click click click click click" in rapid sucession from the starter motor.

    Thought that maybe the battery was shagged as there was alot of smoke coming off it at some point of me trying to start, and it was a really old one anyway so got a new one but im stil having the same problems.

    Tried being towed and bump starting it but the wheels just locked straight up :S

    Please can somone help me ASAP. Im really up **** creek if I cant get her going this weekend. THANK YOU

  2. #2
    Apprentice roryf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    Hydro-locked?

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    Engineer tigger 2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    Er...water in starter motor... 'lectrics dont like water,dry out
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    Apprentice glencoyne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    That doesn't sound good to me. Before you go any further, see if you can turn the engine over by hand, using a 30mm socket on the front crank pulley nut. If it won't shift, don't force it, try removing the four heater plugs, then try turning it by hand again. If it now turns, and water comes out of one or more of the plug holes, you'll know what the problem is.

    Richard

  5. #5

    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by glencoyne View Post
    That doesn't sound good to me. Before you go any further, see if you can turn the engine over by hand, using a 30mm socket on the front crank pulley nut. If it won't shift, don't force it, try removing the four heater plugs, then try turning it by hand again. If it now turns, and water comes out of one or more of the plug holes, you'll know what the problem is.

    Richard
    Qiuck check, pull the air filter, if its soaking wet

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    Trainee MattG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    I've left a fan heater aimed onto the starter motor all day...going to leave it on tonite too I think....24 hours with a 2kw heater blasting at it should dry it out right? Also left one blowing at the fuses and relays inside the cab- yeah it was that deep enough that it may have licked the bottom few rows.

    Fairly confident theres no way the water could be in the actual engine. Ive a snorkle that tops above the windscreen and liveridge said they'd fully sealed it when I had the 200tdi conversion....I hope they did :S or is it still possible water could have gotten in there? The water didnt quite come up to the filler cap or the dipstick so it wont have gotten in through there. how else would it or could it have gotten in?


    Is there anyway of taking any covers off the motor to left air more freely get to the internal bits and allow the water to evaporate off?


    Thanks.

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    Trainee MattG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    I've left a fan heater aimed onto the starter motor all day...going to leave it on tonite too I think....24 hours with a 2kw heater blasting at it should dry it out right? Also left one blowing at the fuses and relays inside the cab- yeah it was that deep enough that it may have licked the bottom few rows.

    Fairly confident theres no way the water could be in the actual engine. Ive a snorkle that tops above the windscreen and liveridge said they'd fully sealed it when I had the 200tdi conversion....I hope they did :S or is it still possible water could have gotten in there? The water didnt quite come up to the filler cap or the dipstick so it wont have gotten in through there. how else would it or could it have gotten in?

    Also, the engine wont even turn when I activate the starter motor. Its the motor itself that either just clicks in rapid sucession, grinds noisily or makes an odd whirring noise depending on what it feels like doing each time. Rarely does it turn the engine and its slow at best if it does it soon resorts to one of the other symptoms.

    If i leave it in gear and try starting, she dosent jump or anything as you would suspect, which also makes me think its jsut the starter motor (for now).


    Is there anyway of taking any covers off the motor to let air more freely get to the internal bits and allow the water to evaporate off?Or does anyone have any other sugestions?


    Thanks.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    hi

    your problem could amount to one of a few things , but as someone said previously you need to make sure engine will turn over by hand , ie via crank nut .

    if i were you ide remove the heater plugs from the head, this will allow you to release any pressure in cylinders and also allow you to easily turn engine over .

    you may have had water enter in through the exhaust valves via the exhaust pipe .
    you didnt say if you had a high rise exhaust , but if the engine stopped whilst the vehicle was in the water, and if the water was up to the sidelights, then i guess the level was above the exhaust manifold ??? , hence if exhaust valves were open on a couple of cylinders they will allow water in

    you probably need to check for water in exhaust , ie make sure any exhaust gas can freely flow out rather than it being blocked with water .

    remove airfilter box and check for damp/water .

    with the heater plugs removed you may be able to get the water out of the cylinders by just turning the engine over by hand until the piston reaches TDC on each cylinder , and blow each cylinder out with an airline when at TDC , then later you can turn it over on the starter to check if starter works etc before putting heater plugs back in .

    if you do find water in the cylinders and after removing it , i would put a squirt of paraffin or diesel down into each bore just to lubricate the bores .

    i think the 200tdi heater plugs need a 10mm deep socket to remove them .


    you can check compression ratio etc by using a compression gauge and adapter fitted via the heater plug holes
    .
    when you are ready to try starting the engine and if it fires up straight away , dont rev it much above idle at first because the turbo may have water in it still and you need to let the exhaust heat do its business and get everything warm and dried out .

    let it idle for a fair time so that the block and exhaust can warm up and return to normal .

    charge the battery overnight if you can , i just use a normal 642 tractor type battery in my defender @ 68 each [90amp hour] from commercial motor factor .

    if the starter is just clicking it can be due to the water blockage in cylinders causing the starter to stop , or it can be just a flat or discharged battery .

    sort the cylinder side out first so you know there isnt any water in the engine , then do the starter side of things once you know engine turns over freely .

    you may have shorted out the battery terminals when you were submerged , ie the terminal on starter motor was under water and then could short to earth via the water .

    you may have submerged the starter solenoid also , and these need to be dry where the shuttle is inside the solenoid , but if you are finding the starter goes clunk it may mean the solenoid is engaging possibly .

    also give the rear end of the starter motor a tap a few times with a mallet , it may be the brushes stuck in their slots and not allowing proper contact with the armature .

    200tdi starters are quite easy to remove and replace if you need to change one .
    get a new starter organised this week coming though if you dont want to be left high and dry at xmas .

    paddockspares will have plenty of them, or brookwell ..

    hope you sort it out without much trouble .
    .

    ian

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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    I tried starting her again this moringing after leaving the heater blasting at the motor all night. Also hit it a few times from underneeth using a bit of trusty 2x2. This time, it did turn the engine like I would expect it to, but it did it very, very slowly.

    Also, I put it in gear and tried starting, It finally jumped like I would expect it to =]

    Ive left the heater on it again today but when I get home from work I shall stick the battery on charge (just to eliminate the chance the new one has become discharged) and take the air filter out (check for dampness) and then I'll check the cylinders for any water ingress.

    Will it be obvious if there is water in there? and how do I turn the engine over by hand? My haynes manual was in the back when the car flooded :S so its a bit soggy and looking through it is a pain. Thanks again.

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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    Ohh dear Just removed the filter, and although that itself is dry, Alot of water was in the hose going into the trubo unit. Took that off and there was alot of water in the turbo unit too. Then took the hoses off the intoorcooler... lots of water in there also...theres a theme here: ther just seems to be lots of water everywhere!! :s the big silver thing (i've no idea of the real name) that the intercooler connects to at the top also has some water in but I dont know how to get it out without removing the whole thing and that looks like a big job.

    how on earth did SO much water get in if the whole intake set up was sealed to the snorkle?

    Just about to remove the glow plugs and see if theres any water in there...im guessing there will be Also going to remove the centre peice of the exhaust.

    Can anyone else think of where I should check for water (appart from the radiator thats about the only place I DO want it) and how to get it out if I do come across any?

    Thanks all.

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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    Look under the airfilter box, is there a hole there? Most filters have a rubber drain in them.

    Take the bottom intercooler hose off and the glow plugs out, then hope it's not bent a rod.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by MattG View Post
    how to get it out if I do come across any?

    Thanks all.
    wet/dry vac? Compressed air maybe?
    Lay-by Lill
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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    I took the glow plugs off this evening and there was a bit of water coming out of all four cylinders...got a nice splattering in the face when my mate tunrned the key.

    The starter now seems to do its job anyway so thats no longer an issue.

    The glow plugs all looked fine. I've repositioned the heater so its more blowing on the right hand side of the eingine....might let water get out of the cylinders- have left the plugs out.

    Does anyone have any more thoughts or suggestions? Would it be worth draining the sump and chaning the oil? I did find water in the breather pipe too when I removed the glows :evil:

    Thanks all

  14. #14
    Mechanic wadams20's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    I would definitely change the oil at this point as you probably have a nice emulsion in the there.
    Lay-by Lill
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    Trainee MattG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defender Starter Motor Problem

    Set up some jump leads from my dads car to the landy and turned her over for five seconds with 30 seconds rest for a bit. The cleaned up the glowplugs, and put them back in. she started first time with no fuss.

    Bit of smake coming off the exhaust but im guessing that will just be water vapour that will clear up after she's been running for a while? I've yet to reconnect the intercooler and air filter...shall do these next.

    The thing that does concern me is the oil warning light been on. Looks like im goin to have to scramble under her and drain the sump now. Fun, fun, fun!!

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