TD5 Dual Mass Flywheel upgrade advice....

[jkelly]

Hi All,
I need to replace a clutch in a Defender TD5 thats used a lot for heavy towing, is remapped and needs to be reliable. Current mileage 30k.

Options available:
1. Simply replace the clutch, cover, release bearing with LandRover/OE kit
2. As above but with AP Driveline (previously Borg & Beck ??) clutch plate
3. Replace the Dual Mass Flywheel with a solid one and uprate the clutch plate, cover and release bearing in the pursuit or longer reliability??

Has anyone used a Solid flywheel on a TD5. Is there much induced chatter/noise etc etc? Are they smooth to use? Ive heard about them before but have no experience of them...

Any thoughts welcomed...

[Porny]

3. Solid flywheel....
Much better in the long term, however you do get chatter at idle. When driving, the noise is no different to standard.
With a good clutch, it is the better long term solution, but it’s whether the customer will mind the extra noise as a tradeoff. My mate in Greece has one on his tuned Td5 110, and the chatter is his only criticism.

I can supply a single mass jobbie if required (although you would probably buy direct)


Or as mentioned.... the other option is a high quality clutch and to keep the dual mass flywheel. As long as you inspect or even replace the dual mass so you know it is 100% then the latter upgraded ones do not seem to fail as often.

From one point of view, Land Rover spent millions developing the flywheel and clutch type and specification, so going down the OE route wouldn't be bad, and will cope with everything within the recommend limits of a Defender.

However, the unknown is the remap. Are we talking a stage 1, stage 2 etc etc.

And how does the owner drive the Defender? - i.e. like he stole it/like Pete (lol) or more sedately?



Ian

[jkelly]

Ian,
Thanks for the input. Buying direct isnt a problem for me.

I know its very difficult to quantify but is the chatter noisy? Is it like an irritating quiet rattle or something that would seriously irritate!?

Its a 110 with a stage 2 tune and normally has a fully loaded trailer. As for driving style - from what I gather it doesnt get thrashed and used as a race car but shall we say it doesnt have the easiest of life! To be fair to him though its always serviced on time and gets whatever it needs etc etc...

Interesting the later replacement OE dual masses dont seem to be failing as quickly... With that in mind what would be regarded as a high quality clutch and cover that would mate to the dual mass flywheel?

[SimonHobson]

From one point of view, Land Rover spent millions developing the flywheel and clutch type and specification, so going down the OE route wouldn't be bad, and will cope with everything within the recommend limits of a Defender.

And the first thing that went through my head at the mention of solid flywheel was "what does it do to the torsional vibration modes in the crank ?" There is the risk that if you remove a damping element, then the crank may twist more and break - I'm not saying it will, but Land Rover will have done extensive modelling of this on the assumption that you have one hell of a damper on it, fitting a solid flywheel WILL change the torsional vibration characteristics. The old 2.5 NA and Turbo diesels have a torsional damper on the front of the crank, don't know if the later ones do.

[spike47]

And the first thing that went through my head at the mention of solid flywheel was "what does it do to the torsional vibration modes in the crank ?" There is the risk that if you remove a damping element, then the crank may twist more and break - I'm not saying it will, but Land Rover will have done extensive modelling of this on the assumption that you have one hell of a damper on it, fitting a solid flywheel WILL change the torsional vibration characteristics. The old 2.5 NA and Turbo diesels have a on the front of the crank, don't know if the later ones do.

Hi

The torsional damper you mention is a vibration damper ( Harmonic ) .

spike

[SimonHobson]

The torsional damper you mention is a vibration damper ( Harmonic ) .

Sorry, but I'm confused (apart from the thread resurfacing after some time) Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me ?

Yes, the dual mass flywheel is a vibration damper. The crank is not a solid piece - it actually flexes in complex ways. The dampers (whether dual mass flywheel or a damper on the front of the crank) are there to modify the torsional vibration modes - some of which may be very detrimental to the life of the crank.

I'm not saying that fitting a solid flywheel will instantly make the crank snap in half, but it may have effects that aren't apparent until it does go (maybe years in the future when it gets used in just the right conditions to excite a particular mode). I do know that some aero engine setups have prohibited rpm ranges that need to be avoided - because it's determined that there's a natural resonance that can cause failure.
On the other hand, it could be completely harmless.

[purp751]

Apparently its a common conversion on the newer shape transits as the dual mass fly wheel breaks down and the resulting dust then wrecks the starter and anything else it finds its way into