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Thread: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

  1. #1

    Default Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    I was happily cruising around the Birmingham area on Thursday...started going up a hill, revs pick up a little, car slows down and eventually starts to roll backwards. D doesn't work, R doesn't work, 1 doesn't work. Switch off, wait, switch on again but still no drive. Obviously fubarred so RAC recovery to Stratstone Solihull. Display shows "Gearbox in protect mode".

    Car has 78k miles. Has had the front diff work (@60k). Has had the replacement rad and gearbox oil change (@75k).

    They will be phoning me on Monday with their view of the damage....what should I expect? Anything I need to know about what they tell me?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    Yep! They will want to know your bank account details,

  3. #3
    Consultant listerdiesel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    ---and your Gold Card PIN number

    Sounds like either the torque converter gone, empty of oil or the pressure pump has died on you.

    Don't know how it fails if you lose electrics, but I'd guess fluids/hydraulics.

    You might be lucky and just have a leak, when did you last check the gearbox level?

    Peter
    June 1999 Disco 4.0 V8 Manual GS on LPG
    email: diesel@easynet.co.uk web: http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk
    V8 Rebuild: http://tinyurl.com/2vee7vz Sunroof: http://tinyurl.com/39d9dfn R380: http://tinyurl.com/32v2r3h
    OBDII Reader: http://tinyurl.com/36r2bv5 LPG Valves http://tinyurl.com/28v943q ABS Mod 19/12/2009 99543Miles
    D1 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/2u2sr9d D2 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/3x72fd7

  4. #4

    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by listerdiesel View Post
    You might be lucky and just have a leak, when did you last check the gearbox level?

    Peter
    Thanks Peter. I'm guilty of never having checked the gearbox level ...didn't know it was something that might need doing outside service schedules. With the sticking in gear issue that I had a few months ago, I understand that it was caused by the gearbox overheating. The garage confirmed that the gearbox oil was "cooked". It was replaced at the time of the rad exchange and then I had it flushed and replaced a couple of weeks later as they said they couldn't be sure all of the cooked oil was flushed out on the first change. I hope they put enough in - they charged me for 6 units (dont know how much a unit is!).

    So if I'm lucky they fix a leak and put some more oil in. Next worst is the pump (which sounds like its replaceable). The big worry must be the torque convertor. Is that repairable or will they just stiff me for a whole new gearbox?

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    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    Sounds like viscous coupling has blown to bits.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    If the transmission ECU detects a problem and flags the ‘TRANSMISS’N FAILSAFE PROG’ on the message centre it will lock the transmission in 4th gear with the torque converter open. This would explain why you couldn’t make it up the hill but it doesn’t explain why you couldn’t select reverse. Once the dealer has read off the P-codes you should have a better idea what has caused the problem.

    6 litres of Esso LT71141 (LR part no. STC4863) sounds about right for a fluid change (total capacity from dry for the 5HP24 is 9.9 litres)

    The torque converter can be replaced with a re-conditioned unit without stripping the transmission.

    The L322 driveline doesn’t have a viscous coupling

  7. #7
    Consultant listerdiesel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    As Bemble has noted, the torque converter is a separate assembly and can be changed, but the gearbox or the engine has to come out.

    It all depends on the type of failure, and whether it is related to your previous problems.

    Peter
    June 1999 Disco 4.0 V8 Manual GS on LPG
    email: diesel@easynet.co.uk web: http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk
    V8 Rebuild: http://tinyurl.com/2vee7vz Sunroof: http://tinyurl.com/39d9dfn R380: http://tinyurl.com/32v2r3h
    OBDII Reader: http://tinyurl.com/36r2bv5 LPG Valves http://tinyurl.com/28v943q ABS Mod 19/12/2009 99543Miles
    D1 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/2u2sr9d D2 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/3x72fd7

  8. #8

    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    Thanks guys. I spoke to Stratstone today but they said that they've been backed up and wont get it in the workshop til tomorrow. Its very helpful for me to have that bit more knowledge when they suggest whats wrong. I'll post when I hear what they think. Cheers.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    Finally....after numerous calls and several days of being promised the car would be looked at, Stratstones finally had a look at it this morning, nearly a week after they got it.

    They tell me they've found that the oil cooler and associated pipework are "corroded and leaking" resulting in loss of oil. They have no idea if there has been resultant damage to the gearbox. Prognosis is to change the cooler/pipework, refill with oil, and charge me £500+. They then fire it up and see if it drives. If it doesn't then a new gearbox will be required adding a further £4500+ to the bill. Oh b****r !

    Particualarly disappinting if they are right. I had well over £1k worth of work done by Matfords in June which included "replace gearbox oil cooler". Seems unlikely that it should have suffered such serious deterioration in 4 months! Me thinks there's more phone calls to be made!

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    Consultant listerdiesel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by MPx View Post
    Particualarly disappinting if they are right. I had well over £1k worth of work done by Matfords in June which included "replace gearbox oil cooler". Seems unlikely that it should have suffered such serious deterioration in 4 months! Me thinks there's more phone calls to be made!
    Might be worth digging out the Matford bills and checking exactly what was on there. The pipe set is about £130 and the cooler £220 or so. If they replaced ALL of that, then someone's telling porkies.

    Peter
    June 1999 Disco 4.0 V8 Manual GS on LPG
    email: diesel@easynet.co.uk web: http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk
    V8 Rebuild: http://tinyurl.com/2vee7vz Sunroof: http://tinyurl.com/39d9dfn R380: http://tinyurl.com/32v2r3h
    OBDII Reader: http://tinyurl.com/36r2bv5 LPG Valves http://tinyurl.com/28v943q ABS Mod 19/12/2009 99543Miles
    D1 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/2u2sr9d D2 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/3x72fd7

  11. #11

    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    Yeh...done that Peter. Matfords did the oil cooler and Rad at the same time but no mention of pipework. The Part no LPFD000020 "cooler assembly" is listed along with a seal and oil. It was only £125+VAT - so from your post now not sure if that actually means a new cooler...or just new pipes...or what!

    Have had the conversation with Matford. They have spoken to Stratstone. The first offer was for Stratstone to do the oil cooler repalcement as a warranty claim. I've decided to take one side of the ping pong team out of the game. I'm going to pick up the car from Stratstones on Wed and trailer it to Matfords. At least then I only have one party to deal with.

    Cheers Mike

  12. #12
    Consultant listerdiesel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    That part is just the oil cooler, much cheaper than the one I had looked at, and a different p/no.

    Probably wise to get out of Stratstone, they have no real interest in the job as it involves another dealer.

    Peter
    June 1999 Disco 4.0 V8 Manual GS on LPG
    email: diesel@easynet.co.uk web: http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk
    V8 Rebuild: http://tinyurl.com/2vee7vz Sunroof: http://tinyurl.com/39d9dfn R380: http://tinyurl.com/32v2r3h
    OBDII Reader: http://tinyurl.com/36r2bv5 LPG Valves http://tinyurl.com/28v943q ABS Mod 19/12/2009 99543Miles
    D1 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/2u2sr9d D2 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/3x72fd7

  13. #13

    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    According to Microcat the oil cooler (PFD000020) costs £180 inc. VAT & the cooler feed (UBP000161) and return (UBP000180) pipes cost £37 incl. VAT each.

    Interesting to note that the workshop manual has the feed & return pipes the wrong way round!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14

    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    Finally got to pick up the Rangie today (just the three weeks after it was recovered to Stratstones Solihull) so I thought I'd post up the outcome.
    To bed fair, I was told the car would be ready by the evening when I rang for an update on Tuesday afternoon, but today (Friday) was my first chance to do the trip up to Solihull from Somerset to collect. I took our old Jimny up so that I could pick up the trailer I'd been towing when the Rangie broke. Then drove it to Stratstone swapped the Jimny onto the trailer and did over 300 miles towing it back - it all worked fine - Phew! Smile back on chops...

    So sequence of diagnosis has been:
    Call from Stratstones after they'd had it for a week to say Oil Cooler and Pipes badly corroded and leaking needs replacing for £500+. Didnt know about gearbox condition but would be extra £4500ish if needed.
    I called Matford Exeter to confirm that they had replaced the oil cooler in June and how come Stratstones are saying its now duff.
    Matford call Stratstones and they agree to send paperwork to support a warranty claim.
    Matford call me to get my agreement - but I'm not happy(!), I've got a real trust issue. I ask Matford for a tow car so that I can recover the Rangie to them and avoid games with Stratstone. Looks on for a while, but in the end I find it impossible to get insurance cover on any temporary loan vehicle to tow my trailer. Eventually give up and agree to let Stratstones do the Cooler under warranty.
    I call Stratstone to give them the go ahead.
    I call Stratstone for update and get told car will be ready quickly cos only one pipe needed changing and there was no issue with the cooler or gearbox.

    Bill lists one pipe (UBP000180) for £37 and six units of oil (STC4863) for £97.44 - total bill £336.02!!

    Of course one could interpret this as lucky old me only needing only the least possible repair in the circs. Or one could say that Stratstones got caught out hyping an issue but had to back down when it became a warranty claim cos it would be a bit tricky to substantiate when they had to return the new bits. Whatever, their overall treatment of me (unexpected delays, zero communication, diagnostics, credibility and costs) were all sufficiently dire that I will never return there even if I break down outside their gate.
    Shame!

    Anyway, thanks for your input and ideas guys.

    Mike

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    Consultant listerdiesel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loss of Drive - how much this time?

    Glad you got sorted out reasonably well, pity about the hassle and largish bill though. At least the box was OK, that £4500 would be a killer for most people, I'd be looking on ebay!

    Dealers hate owners that know more than they do!

    Peter
    June 1999 Disco 4.0 V8 Manual GS on LPG
    email: diesel@easynet.co.uk web: http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk
    V8 Rebuild: http://tinyurl.com/2vee7vz Sunroof: http://tinyurl.com/39d9dfn R380: http://tinyurl.com/32v2r3h
    OBDII Reader: http://tinyurl.com/36r2bv5 LPG Valves http://tinyurl.com/28v943q ABS Mod 19/12/2009 99543Miles
    D1 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/2u2sr9d D2 Image Archive: http://tinyurl.com/3x72fd7

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