Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Air to Coils

  1. #1
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    9th Oct 2013
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    159
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Air to Coils

    I'm going to swap the unreliable air suspension on my '94 soft dash over to coils and looking around it seems like Old Man Emu springs are quite well thought of. I believe that to do the job I need to isolate the electronics via the switch under the drivers seat and then somehow depressurise the system. Is there a safe way to do this to allow the air springs to be removed? I've read about people cutting into the bag but it seems a bit risky.

    I know I need the springs, seats, bolts and spring clamps but do I also need turrets for the front and if so can I just buy them separately? To get rid of the dash lights I just unplug the EAS ECU but what about the valve block, compressor, height sensors and reservoir. Can they all be removed without interfering with any other electrical circuits?

    Any other advice before I start?

  2. #2
    Engineer
    Join Date
    22nd Oct 2011
    Location
    Peterborough
    Posts
    1,353
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Best advice I can give is to save yourself some money and fix the EAS. A full set of replacement bladders, a valve block O ring kit and a pump overhaul kit (valve block and pump are identical to the P38 so readily available) will cost you less than a coil conversion kit. For EAS you need the RSW software and a cable to identify an clear any faults from http://www.rswsolutions.com/index.ph...nlock-software. The difference between a car on EAS and one that has been castrated is chalk and cheese. My LSE had been converted before I got it and I ended up replacing it with a P38 so I could have EAS.
    Formerly owned a '93 4.2 Classic LSE
    '98 4.0 ex-police P38, the everyday car
    '97 4.0SE P38, will be nice when it's finished
    All on LPG

    A proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

  3. #3
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    9th Oct 2013
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    159
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbertd View Post
    Best advice I can give is to save yourself some money and fix the EAS. A full set of replacement bladders, a valve block O ring kit and a pump overhaul kit (valve block and pump are identical to the P38 so readily available) will cost you less than a coil conversion kit. For EAS you need the RSW software and a cable to identify an clear any faults from http://www.rswsolutions.com/index.ph...nlock-software. The difference between a car on EAS and one that has been castrated is chalk and cheese. My LSE had been converted before I got it and I ended up replacing it with a P38 so I could have EAS.
    Cheers, I hear what you say and agree with you regarding the quality of the EAS. I'm also very keen to maintain originality as this will be a full restoration project in the future. However, when I got the car the EAS had been fully overhauled and was working. One day whilst on the way to the airport the dash light came on and it sat down on the bump stops. I had to get my wife to come out to meet me and swap cars so I wouldn't miss my flight. She then had to drive the car back home along the M56 and A55 on the bump stops at night. You can imagine how that went down.

    When I got it to the local dealer they plugged it in and up it went. No leaks, no faults showing, nothing.

    Ive had it happen a few times since and even bought the EAS unlock software and lead to reset everything myself. That's all well and good but the issue of reliability and confidence to use the car, especially for my Mrs, has now dwindled. The Rangy is used at most once or twice a month as I work from home and usually travel by train or plane if I'm going away. It may cover 10-15 miles in that time at best.

    I think this is the reason I am having problems with the EAS as it hardly moves a wheel and I suspect that this may be causing a solenoid to stick or a sensor to malfunction temporarily, producing the fault which then shuts it down. As with most things mechanical, they need to be used the way they were designed and not sat round seizing up.

    I've ordered a HD police spec set of springs from MM 4x4 which has cost me 95. I'm going to stick those on and just leave the EAS switched off so that I can reinstate it when I do the resto. That gives me the time to still use the vehicle when I want to but overhaul the EAS valve block etc at the same time without taking the car off the road. It's a day to swap springs at the most so not the end of the world.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    I know you have bought the Police springs, but why those? I don't think you will like them they are very hard and will give the body a slight lift. You would have been better with standard height springs. I am speaking from experience of police springs on a P38, removed them after 1 day. Only my opinion.

  5. #5
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    9th Oct 2013
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    159
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Quote Originally Posted by E55 View Post
    I know you have bought the Police springs, but why those? I don't think you will like them they are very hard and will give the body a slight lift. You would have been better with standard height springs. I am speaking from experience of police springs on a P38, removed them after 1 day. Only my opinion.
    I used to drive a 3.5 flapper Police Rangy for a living. Our kit was bulky but not really that heavy so the ride even with an inch of lift wasn't that bad. At 15 a spring I can soon change them for softer ones if I need to and it's only a temporary measure to keep the car on the road until I decide the future of the EAS.

  6. #6
    Engineer
    Join Date
    9th Sep 2008
    Location
    Chelmsford
    Posts
    2,509
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    The previous owner of mine told me he had fitted 7 seat discovery 1 springs to mine, not tried it fully laden but unladen or 4 up it seems ok.

  7. #7
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    9th Oct 2013
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    159
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    All done. Fitted the new Police spec springs yesterday which took about 5 hours to do on the drive. Car sits and drives really well and with the D2 isolators fitted I really can't tell the difference between the coils and the air bags. (Except it stays up now)

    Next job the overheating issue and a sticking central locking solenoid.


  8. #8
    Engineer Keeper_of_Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th Oct 2003
    Location
    Preston (Lancs)
    Age
    55
    Posts
    1,835
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbertd View Post
    Best advice I can give is to save yourself some money and fix the EAS. A full set of replacement bladders, a valve block O ring kit and a pump overhaul kit (valve block and pump are identical to the P38 so readily available) will cost you less than a coil conversion kit. For EAS you need the RSW software and a cable to identify an clear any faults from http://www.rswsolutions.com/index.ph...nlock-software. The difference between a car on EAS and one that has been castrated is chalk and cheese. My LSE had been converted before I got it and I ended up replacing it with a P38 so I could have EAS.
    And I thought that you were a decent bloke when I bought your LSE from you.. now I discover that you only flogged it on because it had been converted to coil springs!

    I agree that the air suspension, when it works, is far superior to coils. I'm currently running one with the original air suspension and (touch wood) everything has been fine for the past few years, although I did go through a phase of replacing several of the air bags and fitting a new compressor a while back. I bought a gizmo to read and reset the EAS faults which I haven't had to get out of its tin since 2011, but when I needed it, it was really invaluable.

    The other two LSEs that I have are your old one (now in the queue at the back of the workshop, waiting for time and money to restore) and one that I bought on air suspension about six years ago. WRT this third LSE, I had nothing but trouble from the suspension and eventually we (my friendly local mechanic and I) traced the recurring EAS fault to the valve block and I grudgingly agreed to let him do a coil spring conversion for me: his advice was that replacing the valve block would be prohibitively expensive. I kept all of the EAS parts that were removed, however, as spares for LSE number one. I'm now rather tempted to see if I can get a P38 valve block and put things back to the way that Lode Lane intended...

    As ever, the problem is that I cannot afford my hobby unless I work: because I work, I don't have enough time for my hobbies. What a World!

    Kind wishes,

    Nick


    Nick
    (Keeper_of_Tess)
    [ proud to be a YCHJCYA2PDTHFH member ]

  9. #9
    Engineer
    Join Date
    22nd Oct 2011
    Location
    Peterborough
    Posts
    1,353
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper_of_Tess View Post
    And I thought that you were a decent bloke when I bought your LSE from you.. now I discover that you only flogged it on because it had been converted to coil springs!
    Ah c'mon Nick, had I known how simple the EAS is I would have converted it back but I bought a P38 for the learning experience instead. I kept the LSE for 2 years after getting the P38 as that meant I had a reliable car I could trust until I could put my faith in the P38.

    I now feel I can trust the P38 having done almost 120,000 miles in it, including 5,802 in three weeks earlier this month (including two stints of 1,350 miles in 24 hours), although in that 120,000 miles I've had to repair everything that fails on a P38 at least once......
    Formerly owned a '93 4.2 Classic LSE
    '98 4.0 ex-police P38, the everyday car
    '97 4.0SE P38, will be nice when it's finished
    All on LPG

    A proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

  10. #10
    Engineer Keeper_of_Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th Oct 2003
    Location
    Preston (Lancs)
    Age
    55
    Posts
    1,835
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.

    The smiley was supposed to indicate that it was a tongue-in-cheek remark. I do think that you're a decent fellow.

    Seriously: it's really useful to know that the P38 and LSE valve blocks are interchangeable. It opens up new options!

    I'm glad that your P38 is running well. Now that I've had an LSE for 11 or 12 years, I'm getting quite well practised at spotting and fixing the common failure points. To be fair to Land Rover, It's remarkable how the old vehicles keep going. With a series or an early Defender, you can argue that they're so basic that it's easy to keep them on the road: but a P38 is a complicated bundle of mechanisms.

    I still wish that I had the time and/or money to do justice to my little collection...

    Kind wishes,

    Nick


    Nick
    (Keeper_of_Tess)
    [ proud to be a YCHJCYA2PDTHFH member ]

  11. #11
    Engineer
    Join Date
    22nd Oct 2011
    Location
    Peterborough
    Posts
    1,353
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    No offence taken Nick. I knew nothing about the EAS when I got the LSE and decided it had been castrated for a (unknown) reason so left it at as it was. Buying a P38 that already had one burst air spring meant that I at least knew why it didn't work. Having replaced the rear airsprings and finding that it just worked, I then got stuck into all the other faults. I didn't touch the LSE as it was the reliable, get in it and use it, car. If I'd started working on it I could guarantee the P38 would have let me down with something else leaving me with no transport. However, much as I like the Classic, and the LSE in particular, it certainly shows it's age when compared with a P38 and now mine is fully sorted, I couldn't see myself going back. The electronics and apparent complexity (which it isn't really) are insignificant compared to the lack of rusty bits.
    Formerly owned a '93 4.2 Classic LSE
    '98 4.0 ex-police P38, the everyday car
    '97 4.0SE P38, will be nice when it's finished
    All on LPG

    A proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

  12. #12
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    9th Oct 2013
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    159
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Having driven round with the Police spec springs on for some time now I am tempted to change them for standard rate springs. The ride quality is okay but as they are also fitted with D2 Spring isolators, the ride height is just a tad too high for my liking and I think it's having an effect on the steering quality due to the change in castor angle.

    I also don't load up the rear or tow with the car so standard springs should suffice, reduce ride height and maintain quality.

    Question is what would be the 'standard' rate for a vehicle that was originally fitted with air suspension and doesn't have the self levelling strut at the rear?

    A does anyone know the correct poundage, length and colour code taking into account that the isolators add an extra half inch or so of lift?

    Any recommendations on a supplier for NOS or aftermarket?

  13. #13
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    9th Oct 2013
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    159
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigj66 View Post
    Having driven round with the Police spec springs on for some time now I am tempted to change them for standard rate springs. The ride quality is okay but as they are also fitted with D2 Spring isolators, the ride height is just a tad too high for my liking and I think it's having an effect on the steering quality due to the change in castor angle.

    I also don't load up the rear or tow with the car so standard springs should suffice, reduce ride height and maintain quality.

    Question is what would be the 'standard' rate for a vehicle that was originally fitted with air suspension and doesn't have the self levelling strut at the rear?

    A does anyone know the correct poundage, length and colour code taking into account that the isolators add an extra half inch or so of lift?

    Any recommendations on a supplier for NOS or aftermarket?
    Cant seem to edit my post so will add to it.

    Might also replace the shock absorbers whilst I'm at it and assume these will need to be the standard ones fitted for air? Again any recommendations? Terrafirma seem quite popular but might go with a slightly uprated version to standard.

  14. #14
    Gofer/teaperson
    Join Date
    11th Jan 2017
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Cái n*y có vẻ hay ho đấy...........................

  15. #15
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    9th Oct 2013
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    159
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Default Re: Air to Coils

    Struggling to find a decent suspension package that doesn't involve a lift of some sort. OME, Terrafirma etc.

    Presumably if I just fit an standard rate spring for earlier non-air models and swap the existing air shock absorbers like for like that should suffice? Trying to think of any differences, other than physical, between the air suspension shock absorber and the coil Spring one such as length of travel etc?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. P38 on coils
    By bobtail in forum P38 forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12th Nov 2013, 15:59
  2. Coils?
    By Mike666 in forum Series Land Rovers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 27th Aug 2010, 08:08
  3. what coils
    By ecamilleri in forum Land Rover Defender
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 29th May 2009, 11:15
  4. 110 coils
    By sardog in forum Land Rover Defender
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 22nd Aug 2005, 10:17

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •