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Thread: Where should my engine mounts be?

  1. #1

    Default Where should my engine mounts be?

    Hi

    Thanks for letting me join the group.

    I hope someone may be able to give me some advice.

    I have a series 3 109 Land Rover 1972 as I understand it is an ex RAF the vehicle is Blue with Cream coloured hard top 3 Door. the log book says series three and then the serial number plate and Reg says it is a 1968 series 2A which is is definitely not as the bulkhead and everything else is a three, and I think there has been some jiggery pokery with id plates in the past my problem is I can't fully identify where the engine mounts should be. I was told by the person I bought it from it originally had a 6 cylinder engine fitted and this was removed to fit the engine it currently has due to the fuel consumption

    The current engine fitted is a 1993 Transit DI 2.5 diesel engine onto a standard series three gearbox with overdrive fitted, this is connected using a cast aluminium adopter plate.

    My problem is that the original engine mounts were removed from the chassis and the transit ones then were welded in the correct place for the transit engine. I would now like to change the engine to a 300tdi as the transit engine is quite under powered especially when using the overdrive. therefore I would like to replace the mounts in the correct position to install the 300 engine on its own set of mounts (I am aware there are some other adaptions that will be required). this has also been complicated as I have been told that if my vehicle had the 6 cylinder engine fitted originally the bulk head will be positioned 3 inches further back than a standard 4 cylinder engine. So as you can understand I am a bit confused where to go with this.

    I am hoping members could help me on a couple of fronts

    1) please could some one advise me how I can identify if the chassis is an original 6 cylinder 109 (The chassis is not a military 1 ton), ie what are the clues to confirm which it is?

    2) it would also be helpful if some one could confirm the measurements and shape of the mounts to help locate the mounts correctly for the 300 engine mounting brackets in the series chassis.

    Thanks in advance for any info someone could supply and also thanks for reading and considering if you could help.

    Best regards

    Jon

  2. #2
    Engineer twiggy28's Avatar
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    Default

    I can't help with confirming the original chassis but the 300 tdi engine mounts are a small piece plate about an inch wide that is welded to make a flat shelf.
    All the other previous engines use a different slanted type mount.


    One day it will look like this again!

    Previous oil drippers owned and sadly missed:
    Series 3 109 FFR, 1982 24v 2.25 petrol
    Series 3 109, 1976, 2.25 diesel (now resides in Puerto Rico)




  3. #3
    Engineer Serious Series's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    Some measurements on this from series 2 forum but short wheel base think engine position the same for standard 2.25.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1972 Series 111 SWB with 200di engine fitted with Ashcroft high ratio transfer case.
    Member of NERO [North East landrover owners club] Done some green lanes with this group planning on entering RTV trials with them also.
    Member of Cumbria Classics done some green lanes with them and some more planned.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rifpilchard View Post
    Hi

    Thanks for letting me join the group.

    I hope someone may be able to give me some advice.

    I have a series 3 109 Land Rover 1972 as I understand it is an ex RAF the vehicle is Blue with Cream coloured hard top 3 Door. the log book says series three and then the serial number plate and Reg says it is a 1968 series 2A which is is definitely not as the bulkhead and everything else is a three, and I think there has been some jiggery pokery with id plates in the past my problem is I can't fully identify where the engine mounts should be. I was told by the person I bought it from it originally had a 6 cylinder engine fitted and this was removed to fit the engine it currently has due to the fuel consumption

    The current engine fitted is a 1993 Transit DI 2.5 diesel engine onto a standard series three gearbox with overdrive fitted, this is connected using a cast aluminium adopter plate.

    My problem is that the original engine mounts were removed from the chassis and the transit ones then were welded in the correct place for the transit engine. I would now like to change the engine to a 300tdi as the transit engine is quite under powered especially when using the overdrive. therefore I would like to replace the mounts in the correct position to install the 300 engine on its own set of mounts (I am aware there are some other adaptions that will be required). this has also been complicated as I have been told that if my vehicle had the 6 cylinder engine fitted originally the bulk head will be positioned 3 inches further back than a standard 4 cylinder engine. So as you can understand I am a bit confused where to go with this.

    I am hoping members could help me on a couple of fronts

    1) please could some one advise me how I can identify if the chassis is an original 6 cylinder 109 (The chassis is not a military 1 ton), ie what are the clues to confirm which it is?

    2) it would also be helpful if some one could confirm the measurements and shape of the mounts to help locate the mounts correctly for the 300 engine mounting brackets in the series chassis.

    Thanks in advance for any info someone could supply and also thanks for reading and considering if you could help.

    Best regards

    Jon
    You surprise me when you say the transit engine is underpowered.
    I have almost exactly the same as yourself, without the overdrive, and it goes like a rocket.
    My vehicle was also a 6 cylinder at one time.
    I think the difficulty of getting spares put paid to a large number of these engines.
    Remember that the gearbox on a 6 cylinder was mounted further back on the chassis (4 inches or thereabouts) than standard and may make installing another engine difficult.

    Are you aware that there is a tweak you can do on your transit engine to boost power?
    It involves altering a setting (mid-range fueling) on the injection pump to make the engine much more powerful and responsive without creating other problems.
    I suggest you do an online search to find out more.

  5. #5
    Disco 1 TDi specialist zollaf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    cut old mounts off chassis. bolt engine to gearbox, now weld new mounts onto chassis so as to hold engine in right place. 300 tdi will need non standard mounts from a defender or disco as the series mounts wont work unless you use a conversion, but since you are starting from scratch then you might as well used fender ones.
    currently between landrovers, just a scabby old audi with 359,000 miles under it.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    Additionally, if you still have the original (6 cylinder) radiator fitted, the top inlet pipe is mounted off-centre on the radiator towards the passenger side.
    The standard radiator top pipe is dead centre.

  7. #7
    Consultant Richie_asg1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    I would go with Zollaf and chop off what you have, fit engine of your choice and weld new mounts where needed. I think the 300TDI needs a bit of chassis modification too to get the turbo to fit in there.

    The green bible should have reference points marked for the original positions, but as all things land Rover, this is subject to change without notice

  8. #8
    Disco 1 TDi specialist zollaf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    300 turbo will fit fine cos they are all top mount. its the 200 disco engine that needs mods..
    currently between landrovers, just a scabby old audi with 359,000 miles under it.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    Just a thought. If you put the tdi engine on the 6 pot mounts (ie position) it brings the engine forwards enough to fit an lt77 and the gear lever pops up in the same place as the series box gear lever.
    There is enough room to have a series or tdi rad. Chop off the nose of the viscous fan and fit an electric.

    Just a though
    Alex (Holmfirth)

    Series Landrovers - turning a journey into an adventure


    1967 88 2a Pick up (farm duties)
    1965 109 2a 200 tdi Dormobile
    1970 V8 Dormobile (project)
    1970 200 tdi (ex 6 pot) 2a Dormobile (sold)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    Thanks for that I will check it against mine, If any one has a series 3 109 diagram that would be really good

  11. #11

    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Series 1, 2 & 3 View Post
    You surprise me when you say the transit engine is underpowered.
    I have almost exactly the same as yourself, without the overdrive, and it goes like a rocket.
    My vehicle was also a 6 cylinder at one time.
    I think the difficulty of getting spares put paid to a large number of these engines.
    Remember that the gearbox on a 6 cylinder was mounted further back on the chassis (4 inches or thereabouts) than standard and may make installing another engine difficult.

    Are you aware that there is a tweak you can do on your transit engine to boost power?
    It involves altering a setting (mid-range fueling) on the injection pump to make the engine much more powerful and responsive without creating other problems.
    I suggest you do an online search to find out more.
    Thanks for that advice I will look into it and see what is recommended. I am interested to hear of your experience with this engine. My land rover had been left in a shed for some time and from day one the engine didn't seem to move briskly up to its top revs and on a hill seamed a bit sluggish. it started well and ticked over great. I ran a double measure of injector cleaner including 20ltr of new fuel and there was no real improvement (All the wheels run well free wheeling) there is no white/black smoke etc. when I get up to 40 (takes a long time) and put it in the over drive its fine on the flat or down hill and as soon as it gets onto a slight incline the revs drop and it needs to go back in to 4th again this is a disappointing to say the least. The main reason I was looking in to another engine was that I have been repeatedly told the Transit engine was not a good match to land rovers and only got fitted as you could pick an engine for peanuts in the 90s and therefore this put me off the engine a bit. I went on to the ford transit forums and it was suggested that I plonk a turbo on my 93 DI (Not banana) which I looked out for a suitable turbo and manifold and was unable to find one at a reasonable cost. During that search I came across a (Banana) 95 2.5 DI at a knock down price and so bought it as it was a 76ps engine as opposed to the 70ps fitted it has been sitting in my workshop since while I looked into other options. The general advice seems to be from everyone to fit a 200tdi (to expensive) or a 300tdi (just been offered a complete running disco 95 rust bucket at 200) so you can see my dilemma. In light of your comments I will have another look at the option you have suggested. I would be good to know a couple of things about your vehicle thought to help make up my mind.
    1) Could you tell me what sort of MPG you are getting from yours currently and what sort of top speed will it reach easily.
    2) Does it pull a trailer well on long journeys and hows the MPG then.
    3) Do you have the Banana type engine with the weird air tubes on top. and do you know its "PS" quite often its shown on a paper label on the timing belt cover
    4) do you know if you have the Bosch or Lucas-cav injector pump.
    5) would also welcome your thoughts on the Turbo option if you have any.
    6) Have you had this power tweaking done and if so has it affected the MPG drastically.

    Sorry to machine gun you with questions but if your suggestion works it would save me alot of sleepless nights. If any one you like to chip in there thoughts please feel free.

    Thanks again

    Jon

  12. #12

    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    Ok, I'll try and keep it simple.

    All my Land Rovers are LWB.

    I bought the vehicle about 20 years ago with an early (1986) Transit 2.5D that had been fitted just before the sale.
    It came with a newer but blown-up 2.5D for spares (belt came off oil pump on motorway).
    The sellers knew next to nothing about Land Rovers but a lot about Fords and had tweaked the diesel pumps.
    Both were fitted with Lucas-CAV pumps and neither had the banana manifold or turbo.

    From the moment I first drove it I realised it was powerful but VERY noisy particularly when cold.
    It accelerated far faster than my other Land Rovers fitted with the standard engines, both petrol and diesel.
    The engine has a far greater range of power and greater RPM than a Land Rover.
    I don't know what its top speed is, I stopped accelerating when it reached 90MPH. It was stll accelerating and my foot was not touching the floor.
    I've never gone that fast again.

    About a month later it had a severe fuel blockage which eventually damaged the injector pump. (Long story)
    I did a simple pump swap using the spare and the engine was back to normal.
    Its acceleration was agressive for an old Land rover.
    I have done absolutely nothing to the engine (except oil change etc.) until recently.

    It cruises very well at 60 with good acceleration throughout its range.
    It is fitted with an electric fan (not automatic) which I never use except when doing more than 50.
    Otherwise it cools itself without a fan.
    The exhaust is 2inch diam, larger than the standard LR.
    The engine is mounted on the standard gearbox using an aluminium conversion plate and runs slightly on its side (about 15 degrees) so oil level is not straight forward.
    It does have an oil pressure guage normally about 40psi.
    The clutch plate is standard Land Rover and the clutch cover is Transit.

    2 years ago the injector pump developed a leak and I found spares were almost not avaialable.. at least for the bit I needed!
    I had it reconditioned (about 200) and it lasted 11 months before it started leaking again.
    CAV have ceased supplying spares for older pumps.

    I decided to go to another transit specialist and get another, newer engine if they had one spare.
    They did, a 2.5D 1995 non turbo Mk5 (not banana either) which they fitted for me.
    It has a Bosch injector pump.
    It isn't so fast but it has not been tweaked yet.
    It is still faster than my other Land Rovers fitted with standard engines.
    When it is tweaked (I intend to do it this Spring) I expect it to be as good as the original.
    It will be interesting to see how it compares to my newest acquisition that has a 200tdi and gearbox fitted.

    I have not done a lot of towing with it but that is because I use my "best" Land Rover for horse shows.
    I don't think it would have much of a problem towing anything... you'd probably have to switch the fan on though.
    MPG is a difficult one to be specific about because it is used for short journeys mostly.
    I did a calculation about 10 years ago and it was about 30mpg.
    It is most certainly more economic to run than my 2.25 Land Rover diesel.
    AFAIK the tweaking on the original engine made very little difference to fuel consumption at least in comparison the newer untweaked version.
    I see no advantage in fitting a turbo.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    Thanks for your really helpful advice, you have really given me something to think about.

    The engine I have bought is a 1994 Banana DI 2.5 with a Bosch pump and I think it could be a possibility to use it instead of the original and scrap the idea of the TDI. have you got any Idea how much difference the tweaking will give the power approx do you think it would be 10 or 20% for instance. Did you say you had someone do the adjustment for you? I will have to have a look round on the Transit forums for how you go about it.

    Certainly from what you say the 60 mph is quite sufficient for my needs especially using the standard brake set up or have you done a disc conversion.

    Best regards

    Jon

  14. #14
    Engineer phoenixdave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    Reading the last couple of posts it sounds like there is something wrong with your current engine. I'm not a Ford expert so I don't know what the problem is but I would be checking for blocked filters, dodgy injectors, fuel pumps etc. before taking the engine out. David
    1982 ex-mil 109 2 1/4 petrol on lpg series III, 'Phoenix'

    1983 2 1/4 diesel 88" series III, 'Willy', currently in bits.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Where should my engine mounts be?

    I suggest you Google "transit 2.5 di fuel pump adjustment".
    From my previous experience any improvement should be very noticeable depending on how much you do.

    .........Something is ringing in my head saying you cannot fit a Banana engine in a Land Rover.
    Compare it with the engine already fitted and see if there will be problems.
    Will the bonnet close for instance?

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